I Hate Beavers

[Silver Creek]

Do you have any source other than the DNR??? Wisdom from age by observation of life is valid. Like I said "time cures all", just look how nature is restoring the balance here in WI.
Example record floods last year and the return of the Mt Lion and bear activity below Hwy 10. I agree with you that man as interfered with nature.

I've always liked a good beaver. I think it is time for man to walk,run, drive or fly away and let nature have it's way for awhile.

That is MY opinion!

Fishin' Jimmy

Look Jimmy. I don't know you. I just disagree with you.

Rather than make open ended statements like "just look how nature is restoring the balance here in WI" can you show an example how this occurs with beaver dams in WI, the specific situation that is being discussed?

Secondly, I think you may be inconsistent on how you apply this "time cures all" belief in your life.

For example, are your consistent and do you apply the same criteria to what is most important to you, which is your own personal health and that of your family?

Do you, or have you or you family ever seen a physician to be treated for an illness or have you let "nature have its way" with you. If you have ever intervened in your own health, but refused to allow the same criteria to be applied in other areas, that is inconsistent behavior. A stronger word would be hypocirtical, but I think perhaps you have not considered that a trout stream also has a level of healthiness.

So my question to you is, if you don't let nature take its course with your own health, why do you think it is alright to do this with a trout stream's health?

See you on the other side.

[Mike Ormsby]

OK I'm not sure whether I should wade into this discussion -- I've watched this thread go from interesting to the point where now it seems starting to becoming personal -- obviously there are lots of opinions out there -- and everybody is entitled to theirs -- there's been some interesting info cited in many posts -- kind of both sides of the "dam if you do and damed if you don't" argument -- just wonder if we can keep the discussion on "topic" -- and not get caught up in "beaver fever"

[Flyfish4troutguy]

Keep it to myself again

[maodiver]

I like the one about "anadromous" waters in MN. didn't know atlantic salmon made it that far. If we are talking about silvers, kings, or steelies, then the beavers win.

as far as no natural predators...if we are unwilling to allow preds. back due to the safety of ourselves or our domestic animals, then it behooves us to thin the herd ourselves. Beaver makes good dubbing, and I have read many accounts of pioneers ecstatic over the taste and texture of the tails. Open a season.

[Fishin' Jimmy]

Silver -- let's keep this discussion on track! We are talking about four things, recreational fishing, cold water resources, trout and beaver correct? The differences we have are that you want man to intervene and get an instant resolution to the problem, mine is that man not intervene and let nature take its natural course. We are both hoping for the restoration of a natural flow of water, correct? What we disagree on is the time, it would take to resolve the problem of a natural flow of water.

Not you, the Dam DNR or Bullwinkle the Moose and Rocky the Flying Squirrel are going to change my mind about nature. I just do not think the instant (breakfast) fix for something
as complex as a trout stream is an appropriate solution.

I further disagree with the thought of the destruction of a naturally buildt beaver dam for recreational fishing, creating a habitat for an exotic species(Brown Trout) is appropriate.

I, for one can fish elsewhere!

Fishin' Jimmy

[Silver Creek]

Silver -- let's keep this discussion on track! We are talking about four things, recreational fishing, cold water resources, trout and beaver correct? The differences we have are that you want man to intervene and get an instant resolution to the problem, mine is that man not intervene and let nature take its natural course. We are both hoping for the restoration of a natural flow of water, correct? What we disagree on is the time, it would take to resolve the problem of a natural flow of water.

Not you, the Dam DNR or Bullwinkle the Moose and Rocky the Flying Squirrel are going to change my mind about nature. I just do not think the instant (breakfast) fix for something
as complex as a trout stream is an appropriate solution.

I further disagree with the thought of the destruction of a naturally buildt beaver dam for recreational fishing, creating a habitat for an exotic species(Brown Trout) is appropriate.

I, for one can fish elsewhere!

Fishin' Jimmy

Let's agree to disagree on beaver dam removal.

I knew before we began that I could not change your mine. At this point, it is really not about changing each others minds, is it? It is about those that have not made up their minds. What do they think once they consider both of our views?

I assume you favor brook trout (char) to brown trout given your comment about brown trout. Again this seems to be a contradiction to your view on beaver dams.

I disagree with your belief that destroying a beaver dam somehow favors brown trout. In truth, beaver dams make the stream more advantageous for brown trout because brown trout can tolerate warmer temperatures and do better in still water than brook trout. A brown trout in a beaver dam is like ringing the dinner bell. A brook trout cannot compete. You think they have trouble competing in flowing water? Put both species in a beaver pond and see what happens.

That is why the study quoted by Pharper showed that brown trout grew larger in the beaver pond and why that study is somewhat flawed. It is skewed to show a perceived advantage to a beaver dam since they studied brown trout. That is a preselection bias.

Study rainbow trout that favor running water and it would have turned out differently.

A paper from Sweden showing the benefits of beaver ponds to Brown trout:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...168d01fb2404f1
(Effects of beaver dams on the fish fauna of forest streams. H?gglund and Sj?berg 1999)

The only advantage of a beaver dam is if there are no brown trout already above the dam. Then they can act as a barrier to the upward migration of brown trout.

You apparently have not read the references I post in previosly about beaver dams and brook trout. Beaver dams destroyed or damaged over 50% of the brook trout streams in a single Minnesota county that did a survey of all beaver dams on their trout streams. Here's the reference.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fis...eams/pine.html

On balance, beaver dams are not the brook trout's friend in any fishery where there are both brook and brown trout. Again this is a disconnect between your belief and fact. Beaver dams not only favor the brown trout because of the still water effects, but also because beaver dams warm up the water downstream. Both effects of a beaver dam tilt the stream ecology toward a brown trout fishery.

[Flyfish4troutguy]

Again I will keep it to myself.