The sad state of things.

I use my local fly shop for 99% of my purchases. I do so because it is the only flyshop within 60 miles of my location.I also want to keep them in business. They have been in business for going on three years. I only started flyfishing when this shop opened so I am basically an offspring of the shop. Here is where they have fallen short in my view. They have a regular group or perhaps insiders you might call them . When I go in on a weekend , there are usually two to three at the tying table in the back with BS going on. The owner is back there with the group. The person that comes to help me is the 16 year old son of one of the insiders who perhaps works there I am not sure. The owner does not come to greet me. I have done approximately $1000+/yr. business with him over 2 1/2 years. He knows me. I am not offended by being ignored, but this is a poor business practice is it not. The owner should be glad handling every body that walks into the store whether he knows them or not. Good cutomer relations (eg. the customer is king) applies to flyshops as it does to any customer oriented business right. The same flyshop has not updated their website once since the store opened. I have purchased stuff from the shop that has needed to be ordered and sometimes it takes up to two to three weeks to arrive. When I initially place the order, I do not know how long it will take to arrive. the shop owner tells me , he will call. Two weeks later and no call. I get in touch with him and find out that it is taking this long. Should he not have called me say in a week to update me. Again I do not want special treatment but good cutomer relations are not practiced by my shop. I guess my observation is;How many flyshops are run or owned by people who do not know how to do business in the retail environment. There are good flyshops that succeed and they do so by having excellent customer relations. Just because you are an excellent flyfisherman and tyer does not translate into being a good businessman!!

I'm not going to agree or disagree with anything already said. I will add that often a business fails for many reasons even though it provides: excellent service; quality products; customer support; and other positive attributes. Companies can fail because of too much direct competition; multi-marketed indirect competition(catalogs and internet); location; choice of product or consumer niche'; over-extending its financial resources; a reduced consumer base; super saturation of products by existing consumers; and of course, the overall disposable income condition of the consumer.

Allan

[Stowaway]

I hate spending money at my local flyshop. They are arrogant and geared towards the high-dollar personality. Now, I know that 20% of their customers probably generate 80% of their revenue, but when I had little money to spend (recent college grad) they pushed me on $400 fly rods and $200 reels. My wife bought me a rod as a gift one time, I brought it in to find a suitable line, and they basically told me it was a piece of crap.

Years later, now having money to spend, I just can't shot there. This is not why shops succeed or fail, but it helps if your local shop is worthy of the business. If I run my business poorly, it will suffer. Why shouldn't theirs?

-Stow

[Battenkill Jim]

I see Stow's point. Many of the shops sell high end stuff and if you come in to buy something on a limited budget you get treated as such.
I found recently that a certain high end company that sells flies for $2 each get their stock from a 3rd world country.
Before I pay $2 each for 3rd world flies I'll hit the internet and buy a American made fly for half the price or less!
The internet has hurt many local small business's.
With gas prices up and many PPL's wages down what is a person to do?
For many...either give up Fly Fishing or bargain hunt.

Heat bills up....Gas prices....taxes up....Jobs going from full time to part time employees. Companies farming out over seas.
It hurts us ALL both Business and Consumer!!

Gov't needs to help us HERE not give our $$$ and jobs away to other countries!

I'm off my soap box now



------------------
Jim Bolden Sr

I caught a Fish so big once I couldn't weigh it.
Took a picture of it and the picture weighed 20LBS! (My Dad)

[BigA]

It has to be extremely difficult to run a profitable fly shop. The internet, Ebay, and the big box stores are all taking big chunks out of a fly shop's business. If a price sensitive angler is in the market for a pair of waders, he must be very loyal to a local fly shop when Sierra Trading Post has closeout Patagonia waders for $80 to $200 less than current models of Patagonia or Simms waders. The fly shops are in fact prohibited by manufacturer's agreements from discounting current models to compete with the closeout's sold by big mail order companies like Sierra Trading Post and Cabelas. It is tough to compete when your hands are tied.

Fly shops are also limited in space and financial resources, so they can only carry a limited amount of merchandise in their store. The problem is that if an angler wants an item that is not in the fly shop when he is at the store, he can go home and order the desired item from a mail order supplier and get it delivered in a couple of days. Some people will wait until the store can get it, some people will not. Sometimes stores just do not carry the brand that you want. The result is lost sales.

Being in any retail business is tough. JUst ask anyone that used to own a small PC shop. The Internet and big box stores have made the environment tougher even for well run shops. With the tough competition, only the best run retailers will be able to stay in business.

[nowindknots]

A fly shop is a specialty store. By definition, their target customer base is a small percentage of the public.

It mystifies me how the owner of a shop with limited traffic could EVER do anything to antagonize a customer.

The only logical conclusion after lots of similar threads is some of the owners of small shops don't have a clue.

It's as if they watched the wrong movie and concluded "If you build it they will come."

Rude awakening.

Jim

[This message has been edited by nowindknots (edited 22 March 2005).]

[josko]

I guess I'm learning to do without a local fly shop. We had a great shop (on Cape Cod) that's slowly, over the past 5 or so years, evolved towards spinning reels and bait. I just noticed they put the last dregs of their flylines on sale this week.
But I'm fine. And not only that, but the shop no longer sends tourists to fish right in front of my house. And I wonder if the demise of this shop has had an effect on the numbers of fishermen in the area. The numbers of fly fishermen are down from a few years back, although I think the shop is the effect of the demise, rather than the cause.
I've also learned to get by with catalogs and the web. It's a pain to not be able to cast a rod I'd like to buy (By the way, has anyone noticed how much harder that's become in the last few years? This year, even the local shows didn't have the rodmakers showing up in numbers.)...
Anyway, I'm doing fine, thank you. The nearest flyshop is an hour's drive away and I go there maybe twice a year; I keep telling myuself I'll drive all the way up to Hunter's in New Hampshire one day to try out a T&T rod, but for day to day stuff, I'm not sure I miss a local fly shop anymore.
It almost seems they were an after-efect of 'the movie', the tech boom and are vanishing along in their wake.
What's left is a residual flyfishing hardcore that could probably make do if they lived in Albania.

I guess I should speak up for our local (Sacramento, CA) fly shops. We have three very good ones. Each one has a little bit different emphasis but all are friendly, will talk to beginners, offer classes and seminars, and offer some lower priced equipment. They also offer trips to far-away places for those who can afford them. One of them (my favorite) has been in business for almost 20 years. Just wanted to say that there are still a few good businesses around.

I love the IDEA of supporting my local fly shop, but the PRACTICE of it can be difficult. In Richmond, we have two fly shops and a large locally owned sporting goods store that carries a pretty good selection of tying supplies.

After picking up the sport, I went to flyshop "A" to look around and pick up some things. This fly shop seems to cater to the higher end client, and they really push foreign trips that they run. I drove 35 minutes in a downpour at rush hour to get there. I got there ten minutes before the shop closed. The owner was standing there talking about local politics with another guy and didn't even acknowledge me when I walked in. About two minutes later he says in a somewhat miffed tone "Are you going to buy anything, 'cause I've got somewhere to be." Needless to say I said "not now" and left. I have been back there to pick up one $2 essential that I needed in a hurry and couldn't get anywhere, but I will not buy anything else from them.

Shop "B" is an Orvis dealer who has about 60% of his square footage dedicated to clothes, which he should, since it accounts for a large portion of his sales. The guy that runs the place is a nice guy, and always answers questions. They run a free fly tying clinic every winter. I've stopped in many times just to "shoot the breeze" and there is always a friendly atmosphere. So when I have questions about fly fishing, I always try to buy something while I'm there...even if it's just a couple of flies or some dubbing. The problem is that although they carry a good variety of tying supplies, they seem to often be out of basic tying stuff. I went their once for a natural squirrel tail - they had a couple of different dyed ones, but no natural. The same thing with calf hair on another trip, and adams gray dubbing on another. Also, they are closed Sundays and Mondays and I've been there once during open hours and no one was there. It's not like it's that close to me, but I usually try to go there, but if I go only to find out they don't have what I need...

Which leads me to the the other local choice. This shop carries a full line of hunting and fishing stuff, with a limited fly supply, but almost as good some fly shops. They are open seven days, from early to late. You may not get someone with fly specific knowledge, but they all try to help, and when you've made your selection, there's usually three or four open registers to get you out the door as quick as possible.

I feel lucky that we have some choice of fly suppliers in my area, but each one has its drawbacks. I can pick up the phone and call Bob at Hook and Hackle - both times I've talked to him on the phone he has been SUPER helpful and I've never had a problem with anything not in stock. Add to that the great prices they have and fast shipping....

Sorry to go on and on; I guess my thought is that there are some businesses that SHOULD go out of business. The internet has made things difficult for the small local business. I think that most people would prefer to buy things face-to-face from someone, but when the internet companies not only beat them on price and availability, but out-serve the local shops as well, then that shop needs to change their service level.

But then again...a fly shop caters to such a small percentage of the population that some areas literally can't support one.

Sorry for the long winded post...somehow I just got on a ROLL!

Charlie

I lost the "Fly Fishing Cabin" in Little Canada MN, many years ago, and I am still sadden when I drive by where it was located.

Sad fact over the years, the world turns, and things change. Some say "Change is Good", but that is not true. Cities have lost their neighborhoods, with their unique area characteristics. The local Grocery Store, where you could stop in to pickup odds and ends for supper...gone! The local Barbershop, where you not only got a haircut but could catch up on what has been happening in the area...gone! Drug Stores where the Pharmacist knew you by name...gone! The local Filling Station, where you got your car fuel, engine worked on, lubed & oil changed, and tires rotated....gone! We could walk to most of these places from our houses on the sidewalks along the street, sidewalks.....gone!

Now in the the "Change is Good" society of today, you have to drive 5 miles in your car to do any shopping, and park the car in a giant lot and walk into a Mega Mall, "Bigger is Better"! Hello "Brave New World"!

~ Parnelli

""gee our old Lasalle ran great,those were the days""






[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 22 March 2005).]