Whiting Cree- how to get?

[rrhyne56]

hoarding, that is something that I have been guilty of. Perhaps the same order of malady that causes those folks who are found in a house full of cash stuffed into mattresses, although not nearly the same order of magnitude There is a vein of pack rattedness that runs through my immediate family. Maybe its the German in us

One day I found myself with a bunch of hoarded items (not tying items BTW) that had been around for years accumulating dust. So I decided "what the heck am I doing?!" Chunked some and gave away the rest that was not important to me right now.

The rest of you guys have me waay outclassed, Harry I love your site!

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RRhyne56
[url=http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com:f8983]http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com[/url:f8983]
IM = robinrhyne@hotmail.com

just a few comments to some questions and far-fetched comments made on this topic:

> Why not call the 'Great Doctor' directly?

stop talking about it just do it...whiting: 970-874-7827. I did long ago. The cree waiting list they have just isn't for shops, it's for joe's like you and me too. Skip talking you?re your shop and call your favorite breeder directly. They will work with your local shop to get you one when your number is called. Like a fine cane rod from Mike Clark, expect to wait 2-3 years for a silver to come up with your name on it. Golds are rare and never do you see anything better. I opted for a saddle instead of a neck, the wait is shorter...it seems everyone wants a neck. I also stated I would take a nice dark-barred ginger neck....also an easier wait?.and got one. And I tie with it.

> Perhaps he would chat with you, although he won't with us, you might get lucky.

why won't he chat with you, oh great poo-bah? did you p1$$ him off? All the breeders are the nicest of guys...they all are generous with their knowledge and time. but they do run a business and can't be at the phones all the time, i guess.

> Why is it you are determined to overpay for a second rate product?
> You apparently have seen necks from both and realize the difference.

Oh great poo-bah, you obviously are biased for personal reasons and are not being objective...something I wouldn't expect from a website host. You've been "influenced" with some free product somewheres down the line, yes?

Speaking of other comments, the genetic code for cree is not broken. Sounds like some breeder hype has infiltered this discussion as fact. i laffed out loud when i read this. Cree is a genetic abberation on the male gene, hence why you never see female cree! - wow, ever think of that?! it cannot be manipulated or replicated. it occurs in controlled genetic pools less than 1-tenth of 1-percent of the time; and really never in uncontrolled genetic pools. So, if Metz/Umpqua, Whiting, Conranch, Spencer, Collins and all the others harvest a total of 100,000 birds a year and 60% are roosters, that equates to 60 TRUE cree available from all the breeders. That's why it is so rare and precious.

I read somewhere's where Conranch was kicking out 40 cree every two years. He harvests about 2,000 birds a year. Magically, that's 1 percent of his birds are crees and it was purported he "cracked the code". Ha! let us not get into the discussion of what makes a cree. I suspect his cree count also included some awfully close dark-barred gingers...which in themselves, are darned nice to have!

so anycase, the point I was making is even when someone states the code has been broken, it' still represents less than 1%. that's hardly "broken" in my opinion. I'll say it's "broken" when you get cree out of every harvest and the numbers equal any other natural hackle color.

Geeesh, let me think about this...if the code is broken, let me buy some of those eggs and I'll raise just crees!

I guess cree is an over-hyped fascination. If a tier gets one, they hoard and keep it instead of use it. Instead, save yourself some money and get a golden-brown dyed griz or the somewhat more available dark-barred ginger or medium-barred ginger. AND GO TIE WITH IT! Whoever you purchase from and whatever grade you choose, just be sure the hackles suit your needs; i.e. - the right quantities of sizes you need most and the hackle ties on well to keep your dry fly afloat.

Now, back to getting on a cree waiting list...choose your breeder, make a call and just do it. All cree is good cree.

[bones]

Nice first post whata1derdog....feel better?


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harry mason
[url=http://www.troutflies.com:7f6e7]http://www.troutflies.com[/url:7f6e7]

i've posted before. but rarely.

Haven't read all the above posts, but:

Are we talking about 'fly tying' here, or is this some sort of a pi**ing contest? The comparisons sound more like something you might hear in a boys locker room.
Oh,and just a reminder for some above who suggested that brown and grizzly can be used for cree, you've got your origin reversed. Cree was 'considered' by some as a way to get the effect of mixing grizzly and brown.

tyeflies

[flymaker2]

whata1derdog-

Sorry to get your waders all bunched-up with my obviously radical statement about the Cree genetic code being broken.

OK, OK-it is not broken; rather genetic breeders are inspecting possible hairline cracks in the code. How's that?

Denny C. told me that he broke the code. Here is an image of a Conranch Cree hen:



Doc Knoll says he can grow as many Crees as he wants to; and has it fiquered out too.

Now I am sure a lot of what you say is true, but there is leeway on this Cree business too.

BTW- I have no bias against Whiting Farms. I have some of their product. I am glad that so many great tying products are available from a variety of sources to those of us who use them.

Rich



[This message has been edited by flymaker2 (edited 28 October 2004).]

[RonMT]

I would like to know what is so special about a cree cape to start with. Is it because someone wrote an article about one? They have been around for a long time. Granted they may not have had the quilty they do today but in years past they sure were not bought up like they are in this day and age. Use a Grizzly and Brown togeather for Gods sake. Dye a Grizzly Brown. Those combos has been with the fly tying world for more yeaars than most people have been tying flies.
It cracks me up how someone writes about something and all of a sudden it is the next best thing since sliced bread. Guess what there are ways to get to the same place without all the hassle.
As I see it Cree is the lazy Man's way of tying and adams so that you don't have to use to different colors of hackle. That is about it for that color. If you are looking for streamer or saltwater feathers in a Cree Color then get Indian capes or Chinese cape for these flies. Thay are a lot cheaper and work a lot better.
I can't believe that a Dam cape color can cause hard feelings between poeple? It is beyond me? I have beeen tying for a lot of years and I have had one fly that I can remember that called for a cree feather to be used.
I suggest people get over that color guess "what" It ain't that important. Ron

[Hans Weilenmann]

Having a 'crusty' day, Ron? *chuckle*

I guess we all could easily get by with a far fewer materials than we collect over the years, and be none worse off fishingwise. However, it just wouldn't be as much fun, now would it...

Cheers,
Hans "I'm all Cree'd out" W

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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier

tyeflies,

I was merely suggesting using 1 grizzly and 1 brown hackle as one way to get the color effect of a cree, the brownish grizzly color. Its not the real thing, but its close. Thats all. If you want to criticize, go right ahead. You seem to enjoy a good pi$$ing contest as well as the next guy.

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Norm

A little effort on your end reaps just rewards.

[SheTies]

Here is the link to the cree article on this site. [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.html:a6cd6]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.html[/url:a6cd6]

Genetics is an interesting subject and is often misunderstood. To me cree sounds like a sex-linked recessive trait that is passed along on the Y chromosome. Now someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that is how I see things.

I work in research and development for a greenhouse. We mix-and-match flower colours until we get the flower just right. Then we isolate the plant and work on making more. Now I know you can't take a cutting of a cree rooster and stick it into soil and have it work, but it is genetics all the same. With adequate record keeping and a large enough genetic pool I would imagine that the "code" will be cracked. (if not already)

Just an example, a French company isolated the gene responsible for blue colouring in flowers. That doesn't mean that we are going to be flooded with blue flowers, it means that they have a better understanding about what is going on. They have a starting point shall we say.

Denny and other bird breeders have my respect, as a fellow researcher/grower I can appreciate all of the work that goes into developing a nice new product. The record keeping alone is intimidating.

So let's stop flinging chicken dung around the coop at eachother and start collecting those feathers!

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Let it go and let it grow.