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Thread: How to plan an Alaska trip?

  1. #11
    Join Date
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    It's a long, long way from Centre, Alabama to any point in Alaska, and although it is heaven for bass and crappie fishing, it's a long way from trout water. Even flying, it's faster to go from Atlanta to Europe than to Anchorage.

    Several years ago I drove from Portland, OR to Alaska several years ago before gas got so crazy expensive, and I am glad I did it. I drove a 1,000 miles a day and did it in 3 days each way. Parts of it were great, but it gets old sitting for the flagman during all of the seemingly endless construction. I'd rather fly to Washington and take the ferry Alaska Marine Highway. As a humorous aside, I drove to Deadhorse to see the Brooks Range and the north slope, and met up with a guy from Florida, and GA-FL being a lot like Alabama-UT, the trash talking about SEC football got started--a mere 6,000 miles from home.

    Rob (Idahofisher)is on the money about timing for species. Also, are you looking to fish the Kenai peninsula or a fly out lodge? The Kenai is definitely cheaper. Well-known lodges like Bristol Bay, Kulik, Katmai, etc. are about $1,000 per person per day, and that is for local fishing. If the bite is off or the water is up or your curiosity is wandering, fly outs are more expensive, and the DeHaviland Beavers, with more capcaity, are about 50% more per hour than a Cessna 185 or 206. You are prolly looking at $400-450 an hour in the cessna and $500-600 in the Beaver.

    There are air services in Anchorage, Homer, Kenai, and Talkeetna that can fly you across the inlet and do daytrips somewhere to the west.

    I've been thinking about returning myself, and believe that I could book this year. I am interested in the rainbows, and a few silvers for meat. I am not all that big on Chinook, they're just big and don't have the same fight to me as bows and steelhead. Nonetheless, I'd still go to the Kenai. You have just as good a chance of landing a trophy bow there as in the west, and the race from the lodge to the stream in the west can be headspinning andget crowded.

    Car rentals are very expensive in Alaska because they have a very short season. Lodging is generally more expensive in AK too, especially in Anchorage. So what I would consider is flying to Anchorage and then to Kenai and taking a cab. I would probably stay in a cabin on the river or a B&B on the river in the vicinity of Sterling. The fishing there is running upstream to Skilak and from a motorboat, and although fishing plastic beads from a morotboat is not traditional in any sense, the chance at a monster-over 8 or 10 pounds is very high.

    Hunting season opens in august and Septemer on upland game and waterfowl. I may go back after Labor day on my next trip and catch big fish and then chase ptarmigan and grouse over a bird dog.

    The tourism falls drastically after Labor Day week. You can definitely book a trip then, you can even find a guide then if you just showup.

    There is one additional thing that I can add about the Kenai, and that is the services out of Coopers Landing. There are a bunch of them, and a number of good guides. But I don't like the system--the river is extremely regulated by the state and the feds, and the guides have a permit for X "starts" per week, which in theory shoudl limit their trips. It's not well-enforced, but it's not extremely abused either, so it does provide some limitation on trips and earnings. Thus, the 20 foot Willie partyboat system has emerged, and they are frequently fishing 4 rods. That means you'll likely end up with strangers, perhaps first timers or people that will drive you nuts. Those trips generally run from Kenai Lake to jim's landing, and yo have the chance to catch nice fish in the upper section. If the guide has an outboard on the boat, one can arrange to fish "the canyon" down to Skilak and then motor for a while to the ramp on the lake. Really ambitious people with a motor can float from Kenai lake through the canyon to skilak, motor through, and then fish the middle section down to the landing at Sterling. The canyon has fewer boats going through it, is a little quieter, the fish may be less educated, and requires a longer shuttle of the truck and trailer and is more expensive.

    By mid-September, the rain starts falling, but the fish are just getting bigger, and the river less crowded. Trucks are easier to rent, guides easier to book, and deals on lodging are easier to find. The biggest trout caught up there are prolly September to early October, and although the guides's last trip is usually the first week of October, they are happy to have the time to just fish.

    One can drive up the Parks Highway from Anchorage and fish several streams-there are three streams in particular that will give up nice bows--Sheep, Willow and oops- I forget the third. I've seen photos of some big fish come out of those small streams in early October.

    Cross country airfare in general has gone up. I saw some airfare from ATL to Anchorage last week for $535, which is a better deal than say, to Seattle, which is maybe $25-40 cheaper.

    You can send me a private message if you want names, numbers, links, etc.

    Personally, I'd go no earlier than August 15 so that the chinook have had time to dump out their eggs and the fish are feeding hard on them and then the sockeye start dumping heavily. The laying varies with water level and temperature down at the mouth, because they affect fish entry (for one or all species, it depends on weather and rain). Delayed fish entry by the early species will affect the laying, feeding frenzy, and weight gain by the bows, and delay of the silvers can affect the quality of the meat fish that you catch if you are there in late August. The sockeye will be laying and dying hard by late August and early Sept, so there is a lot of carrion in the streams in addition to eggs in early September, which means you can have fun with "flesh flies." The silvers are the last to lay eggs and die, and when they go, the streams are just chock full of eggs and flesh, and the bows and dolly varden are so gorged they will just spew eggs out when you catch them and hold them.


    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Atlanta, GA
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    Some good reading:

    [url=http://www.krpga.org/:e53e4]http://www.krpga.org/[/url:e53e4]
    <A HREF="http://www.mysticfishing.com/alaskafishing2005.html" TARGET=_blank>
    http://www.aktroutfitters.com/[/url:e53e4]
    http://www.mysticfishing.com/alaskafishing2005.html[/url:e53e4]

    <A HREF="http://www.kenaipeninsula.org/Cooper_Landing.asp" TARGET=_blank>
    http://www.kenaipeninsula.org/Cooper_Landing.asp

    [url=http://www.toursaver.com/:e53e4]http://www.toursaver.com/[/url:e53e4]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

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    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

  3. #13
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    I forgot to mention that there is ample walk-in fishing at Cooper's Landing. The Russian River is a good stream to hike, and the further you are willing to walk, the wilder it gets. There are USFS cabins up the river that can be rented, but they are walk-in and primitive. They have traditionally been hard to rent before Labor Day unless you book way out in advance.

    There is another stream well known for Dollies just up from Kenai Lake named Quartz creek, I stayed in that campground a bunch of times.

    Ninilchik, a drive down from Soldotna to Homer, is one of the few places that I found that you can still charter a boat for a group of 4 or so to fish for halibut, etc. Most other places are running the larger party boats.

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 31 May 2006).]

  4. #14
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    Rawthumb, great info. You know your stuff.

    You mentioned Kulik lodge. I guided for them for 7 years. Have you been there? If so when?

    If you have been there in the early to mid 90's there is a good chance we met.

    Im went back up a couple of summers ago and guided for Alaska sportsman lodge for 6 weeks.

    The fishing was not as good as I remember on the Brooks, Morraine, Kulik rivers etc. it but it is still very good.

    The one exception was the Kvichak river. That river has an amazing fall Rainbow fishery.

    Rob

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Shell Lake, Alaska USA
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    I help moderate the [url=http://www.alaskaflyfish.net:8312b]www.alaskaflyfish.net[/url:8312b] site. Your questions are very common. We have a specific section on the board with lots of info to answer most of the frequent questions, and a forum section where you can find lots of good options depending on your fishing experience desires, budget, and abilities. There are alot of posts there Good luck, and tap into the resources there, to supplement the good advise you have gotten in this thread.

    For this season, getting reasonable options is somewhat more difficult. Airfares are very booked, so finding mileage award tickets, or good priced deals are going to be very difficult. Also, alot of guides, lodges, Public Cabins and such are fully booked. However, for a do it yourself options, there is always opportunity, but hiring a guide for a day or two will really get you onto the different techniques, strategies and gear we use.

    Good Luck and tight lines!

    ------------------
    Flying Fisherman in AK



    [This message has been edited by Flyboy@ak (edited 31 May 2006).]

  6. #16
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    Rob:

    I have not been to Kulik, but have acquaintacnes that have been. I fished the Kenai with a guy last time who had been to Kulik just before we fished, and he had better success on the Kenai and grumbled about what he spent in the west versus what he was spending with me to catch more big fish. I knew a guide that may have been at Kulik when you were, a short guy named Jeff who worked at Kaufmann's in Portland in the early 2000's, and talked to him a lot about it. I heard a number of humorous stories about his guiding misadventures in AK from other people. Randall K himself was fond of Kulik, and they tried to sell me on going there. From everything I've gathered from friends that have been to Kulik and other lodges, it can be hit or miss too, there is often a morning race of planes and boats to get to "the spot," it can get busy on smaller streams, and anglers can get in a position where they are working the same stretch of water hard. For less coin, I can go to the Kenai for 2 weeks, improve my chances of good conditions, get on some huge fish, and be close to a store, restaurant, whatever.

    I used to have names of good places to buy beads-for chinook, reds, silvers, etc.-can anyone provide links to good bead vendors. I don't recall Cabelas as being the best place. Can anyone provide links of dealers known to them?

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 01 June 2006).]

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  7. #17
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    Rawthumb, I know exactly who you are talking about. His name is Jeff Phaender.

    We guided together at Kulik. He still lives in the Tigard area.

    So you know RK? When I was living in Bend I taught Kaufmann's fishing school in Maupin with Bob Guard. I have also worked at the Tigard shop.

    Randall has always been a very good friend to me and both he and Lance are great guys.

    It is funny that my two heros growing up were Jack Dennis and RK. I ended up working for both of them and becoming friends to the point that we fish together.

    The problem with SW ALaska just like most places is that it has become just too accessible.

    The rivers are still good but IMO the last really good year was around 1991 or 1992.

    At that time usually you would only see maybe one or two groups on a particular piece of water for the day.

    Every year after just got worse and worse with more and more groups sharing limited amounts of water.

    It is at the point now that most days you get one hole and then you spend the rest of the day fishing behind the other groups on the river.

    That is the main reason I quit guiding for Kulik after the end of the 1996 season.

    Rob

  8. #18
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    I don't claim to "know" Randall or Lance, I just talked to them in the store and wherever else I saw them. I was in the store frequently and chatted with the guys. I dealt with Gordon a good bit until the time he left, and I heard that he came back. You may remember from prior discussions here that I have been in your store in Driggs too.

    Is the story about er, how shall I state it, Jeff's departure from Kulik in relation to the difficult client and the tip pool true?

    Access is a dirty word in Alaska, and a double edged sword. There are entrepreneurs that want to bring in tourists and anglers, the local govt wants them, the tourists and anglers want to go, but the good access is limited, and the number of people enticed to travel there swamp it. There are also those of us who woudl like to rough it and go somewhere wild to fish the west without all of the crowding that we have discussed, which is absurb considering how far you are from anything, but getting to thoses "untouched" waters is about impossible. The wilderness area restrictions on motors and various other state and federal restrictions prevent you from flying into an immense expanse of country. I know that it is good in many respects, but the downside is that it limits tourists to the known commodity of streams that provide access and crowds them. Would it be less crowded overall if we could land planes on lakes in areas that are now offlimits? Well, I don't know, it's possible that they would lower prices and ramp up promotions and crowd any new waters just as badly. With the intent of doing a backcountry float on our own, we studied maps with pilots and some local Anchorage guys that have wall tents, rafts, etc., but there was just no where to land to get there. Some of those you would just have to run up with a powerboat until you reached wilderness boundaries and turn around and fish down.

    I wouldn't want to run out and invest a bunch of money in a remote AK lodge though. It's far too seasonal, and they sell frequently. Bristol Bay Lodge sold recently, I guess last year.

    The funny thing is, the streams on the Parks Hwy are prolly the most accessible of any, and I have prolly had the most solitude on them. (Getting upstream and avoiding the periods the salmon were entering the mouth). I have a picture of Bird Creek south of Anchorage that I took in August while the coho were running. It was done 35 mm SLR on print or slide, but I wish it were digital so that I could post it on the net to show these guys what true, shoulder to shoulder combat fishing really is. I took if from up high on a bridge, with great composition.



    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 01 June 2006).]

    [This message has been edited by Rawthumb (edited 01 June 2006).]

  9. #19
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    Rawthumb, I now do remember that we met here at the shop.

    I talk to so many people everyday that sometimes it all blurs into one.

    You obviously know someone involved with Kulik.

    I wasn't their but I did hear something to that effect concerning Jeff.

    I just talked to Kaufmann's and Gordy being back is unfortunately just a rumor. He is a great guy!

    I agree with what you said about what is causing crowding up there.

    I think another factor concerning the crowding in Katmai area anyway is due to the fact that without reds in the river system there are usually no trout.

    Unless there is a lake in the system then there are usually little or no Reds.

    And also as you know certain streams usually hold trout at certain times up there on many of the streams.

    And most of the lodges are fishing the same waters at the same time.

    I know for a fact that Sonny is making his money with his air service and his concession at Brooks which is catering mainly to bear watchers.

    The fishing lodges are usually lucky if they break even.

    Rob

  10. #20
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    Rawthumb,

    I don't know what "guys you talked with in Anchorage", but there is really no water that is off limits for landing floatplanes in. Even in the Parks, Preserves, National Wildlife Refuges, and other "government controlled" lands (State or Federal), use of floatplanes is NOT restricted. Access by floats on lakes larger than 50 acres, navigable or meanderable waters (rivers over 200' wide or lakes over 50 acres) is allowed on Native and other lands surrounded by private ownership. There are alot of rivers determined navigable that are narrower than 200'.

    Now for walking access above Ordinary High Water, you do need to know land status. If you float and stay between OHW and/or are in Government managed land it is not a problem to walk above OHW. Camping in some Parks and Preserves may require a camping permit, but is not a big thing. There are LOTS of opportunity for "Get away from it" float trips. On many of native owned lands, a permit is required, but the costs are not "trip breaking" by any means, especially if you are a catch and release fisherman. Hunters and fish killers are a different story, as it is seen as a pressure on the Natives subsistence resource.

    I agree with the lodge pressure on waters in Bristol Bay and SW Alaska, many just go to the same old favorite holes, and it looks like a race to them every morning during peak fishing periods. Since most all lodges use floatplanes, after 20 years and 4,000 hours of flying them, I abandoned floats. Access in a tundra-tired plane provides far more opportunity for accessing good fishing. Particularly as the water levels drop in the fall, right when the fishing is getting beyond fantastic, floatplanes cannot access alot of rivers. This exact scenario where operating on tundra tires opens up nearly every bend of the river.

    So, I truly believe that you may have not gotten the full story. There are lots of rivers to go do a float trip on, out of the way of the lodges, and pressures. Some examples are in NW Alaska, like the Kobuk, Noatak or Koyoukuk. Or even in SW Alaska, the Mulchatna, Chilicadrandra, Koktuli, Togiak, Kanektok or upper Nushagak offer wonderful trips.

    However, the price of getting to and from is going up big time. AvGas in Anchorage is $5 a gallon, and likely paying double that in some locations out in rural Alaska. So correspondingly, charter prices for aircraft are going up. I don't even look at my receipts when I fill up, but is is painful to see the monthly bills I am occuring for doing the same flying for my fishing habit. I fly a couple of hundred hours, and fish 100 days or so a season, so it is a hefty price of admission to fish in absence of the crowds. Will probably end up doing more fishing on the Kenai, which is by far the best value for the best fish you can do if you come to Alaska. The suggestion of upper reaches of Parks Highway streams is also a good one.

    Tight Lines

    ------------------
    Flying Fisherman in AK

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