Okay, since we're on the subject of hooks with 'turned down', 'turned up', 'straight eye', and even some design that falls between, what are your opinions about the initial angle created by the line/leader/tippet and the type of eye and its effect on 'Hooking' the fish? The literature has many authors opining on this, especially insofar as Atlantic Salmon. Obviously this relates to somewhat larger hooks then has been discussed here. So ....?
Allan
For no real intelligent reason at all other than what I have read and seen since I began using and tying dry flies, as opposed to popping bugs and foam hopper pattern, I like eyes turned down on dry flies but have thought up turned eyes might be better for nymphs and help keep them turned right side up.
Want to hear God laugh? Tell him Your plans!!!
Down-eye, unless I'm desperate and the Orvis around the corner only has straight-eye.
I hate the look of straight-eye. Don't know why, just do.
Alan:
When I started tying around 1949 or so all dry flies were tied on turned up eyes. For one reason or another I drifted away from dries. When I became interested in dries again a few years ago it was difficult to find any turned up eyes. In your opinion what caused the change?
Last edited by salmonriversavage; 11-09-2012 at 04:47 PM.
That is very incorrect. The early(pre-1949) literature about fly tying and the dry flies that were tyed, also prior to 1949, pretty much confirm that down eyed hooks were widely available and in wide use. Hooks like the Bergman's name models, Allcocks, Mustads, and even Pennells were manufactured. Some of the Catskill dry fly tyers and commercial tyers of that era whose flies were tyed on 'down-eye' hooks included: Christian, Steenrod, Cross, Wulff, Bailey, Bergman, the Darbees, Dettes, and others whose names I can't recall right now.Originally Posted by salmonriversavage
Allan
Like ScottP, I like the Dai-Riki 125 for smaller flies. The 125 is a straight-eye 2X short hook so the shank lends itself to tying smaller flies with the advantage of a larger gape.
This little extended body BWO is tied on a size 18 125 ...
... but even with the extended body it is about the same size as a fly tied on a size 20 standard dry fly hook. Lots more hooking and holding power than a size 20 dry fly hook to my way of thinking.
For larger flies, it doesn't make as much difference to me, although another of my very productive flies this year, Duck's Green Drake, is also an extended body fly tied on a straight-eye hook.
John
The fish are always right.
Certainly this side of the pond you wouldn't find many drys tied on down eye hooks 50 years ago. Parachute flies have mostly been tied on down eyed hooks. The original Hardy's hook with built in parachute post wasn't up eye. The other factor I think has influenced it is quality of mono. The turle knot tightening down on the shank doesn't strangle the mono like a knot tightening on itself can.
It can be quite difficult to tie your flies with the required bare shank in front of the head to let the turle knot sit on the shank. I know the Catskill flies were dressed this way even though they were on down eyed hooks.
It doesn't look much but try to tie a fly with that little gap.
Cheers,
A.
Great tie Alan! I almost always grab up-eyes for my dries and emergers, and down eyes for nymphs, streamers, wets, scuds, and the likes. I own but rarely use straight eyed hooks. Even for the smaller than size 18 dries and emergers, I use up eyes (old mustad 94842 hooks).
Regarding the knot behind the hook-eye issue: do you (Alan or anyone for that matter) use that knot often, as opposed to the Davy knot, improved cinch, or some other knot? Also, when using the knot (I think it is called turle knot?), do you find it easier to leave space on an up-eyed hook versus a downed-eye hook when tying the fly? Inquiring minds want to know
Tight wraps,
-ZugbugPete
For dry flies I don't. I do use a double turle knot for salmon flies. When I'm fishing a spinner pattern I now use a fixed loop that lets the fly swing. It has resulted in a lot more takes. I put this down to micro drag. If using a knot that clinches tight it doesn't let the fly swing about.
As for leaving the space it is a pain to do on any kind of hook!
Cheers,
A.
How true !!
One thing I do like about the straight-eye hooks for smaller flies is that I seem to be able to not crowd the eye quite so much as I typically do on down-eye hooks. Not sure if that is a function of the hook or the fact that the hook style improves my awareness of not crowding the eye ?? It is probably a combination of both since the straight-eye does seem to allow for a bit more thread build up without crowding it.
I also think that threading the tippet through the eye is easier ( not easy ) on the smaller flies with the straight-eye than on down-eye hooks of the same size.
John
The fish are always right.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
