Line Choice

[moonlitflies]

Paul look under his name. I am bummed because I have a few questions to ask.

Brandon

[Paul Arnold]

Good God! He's been BANNED! It's like KIAs -- why does it always happen to the good ones? I guess he failed to pony up as a sponsor. Like the Old Feller says, "Rules is rules." Thanks for pointing out to me the reason for his absence, Brandon. ~pfa

[CM_Stewart]

And thank you Chris for correcting my missreading of your rod bend penny weight comparisons. With out being able to see the rod butts and the distances that they are appart, it is a little hard to get a complete and true picture of their bend profiles. I should have paid more attention to your excellent discriptions of the rod's bend characteristics instead of just looking at the pictures....Golden

In all my rod bend comparison photos, the rod butts are side by side, wedged together into a box that holds both rod grips at the same angle.

I, too, wish John could have answered your question, as he has been able to fish with the rod more than I have (I lent my own rod to another angler shortly after I got it, and he bought it rather than send it back. I then miscounted my sales and inventory, and ended up having to mail out the rod I had intended to keep for myself as a replacement). As I recall, the rod is less tip heavy than the Amago but I don't remember whether the damping is significantly different.

Paul, I know you have both rods, have you had a chance to fish with them back to back?

[goneflyfishing]

I might be fishing both rods this weekend; I fished the 43MF just a week ago for the first time and was very impressed. It feels stiff, just like the Amago, but not as top heavy. I caught a bunch of nice South Platte trout that the Sagiri would have had some issues with but the 43MF handled them very easily. More to come if I don't forget to bring the Amago this Saturday (and we go to a river that's big enough).

[GregM]

Since we might not hear from John, I'll ask again -

Anyone know the maximum tippet suggested/possible for the 43MF?

Thanks.

[scorpion1971]

Since we might not hear from John, I'll ask again -

Anyone know the maximum tippet suggested/possible for the 43MF?

Thanks.

Greg I do not know the answer to this. Chris might be able to answer this since he sells this rod. He may have overlooked you post asking this. You might try to send him a PM or contact him through his Blog.

Mike P.

[CM_Stewart]

Nobody knows the tippet limitations for any Japanese rods. For that matter, I would submit that nobody knows the tippet limitations for any tenkara rods. For the Japanese rods, you have to realize that the fish they fish for don't get bigger than about 16" max. They have no need for strong tippets. For the 43MF, there are only a handful of rods in the US. The only way to know what the rods can handle is for a bunch of people to catch big fish and for some people to break rods because they used too strong a tippet. So far, no one has broken a rod. I think you're probably safe with 4X, which is about 5# test, but that's a guess, not a guarantee.

As for my thought that no one knows the limitations for any tenkara rods, consider that the company that has sold the most rods outside of Japan, TenkaraUSA, recommends tippet with a breaking strength of up to 7#. I know TenkaraUSA rods have broken when using tippet of less than 7#. Obviously, the company is not going to tell you or me or anyone how many of their rods have broken and what tippet strength the people who broke the rods were using. I've done enough spin fishing with 6# test line and have broken off enough snags to tell you that it is not easy to break 6# test line. Depending on the angle at which you hold the rod, I would bet you could break most tenkara rods with 7# tippet. Please do not take my statements as a criticism of their rods. They aren't. I just disagree with the recommendation of 7# tippet.

Please forgive the longwinded answer. The bottom line is I don't know what the tippet limitation for the 43MF is.

[CM_Stewart]

Do the stiffer extended back sections of the rod some how add stiffness to the tip or is it a dynamic of the additional section adding more stiffness to the whole rod, resulting in the higher penny count rating?

The back sections do not add stiffness to the tip. The calculation is based on bending the rod by a percentage of the length. As the length is increased the amount of bend has to increase as well to keep the same penny rating. For the 43MF, the added section is stiff enough that takes another few pennies to achieve the needed bend.

[GregM]

Chris,
Thanks for the input on tippets.

TUSA is now recommending only 6#, and selling only 4.9# (Frog Hair 5X).
I assume at one time they did recommend 7#, implying that a few rods didn't handle it well.

I was curious only to the extent that it might provide some insight regarding rod design. But it is becoming clear that tippet recommendations appear somewhat arbitrary, protecting the manufacturers more than the rod.

I know that poor technique is probably responsible for more broken rods than tippet.
But I am hoping for some "apples to apple" criteria that differentiates rod capabilities.



I liked your suggestion: "The only way to know what the rods can handle is for a bunch of people to catch big fish and for some people to break rods because they used too strong a tippet."

I had the opportunity to stress test an Amago using Frog Hair 4X, which they claim is 6.2#. I was brutal. I tried to "point the butt at the fish", seldom looked at the bend in the rod (scary), just hauled big fish back and forth to wear them out. Didn't break the rod. I did break the tippet.

I'm inclined to stay with 4X, or less.

None of which help make a decision on a 43MF.

[CM_Stewart]

I checked their site before posting. The 7# recommendation was still there. It may be that there are different recommendations on different pages (I know how hard it is to maintain a website).

I know of a rod that is rated for 12# test tippet. It is available in 3.6, 4.5, 5.4 and 6.3 meter lengths. It is a well known brand and is made in Japan. I haven't imported it because (1) it is more expensive than the rods sold in the US, starting at probably $245 for the 3.6m rod and $280 for the 4.5m rod, (2) it only collapses to 44" (47" for the two longer rods), and (3) being stronger, it is also heavier: 3.7 oz for the 3.6m and 5.1 oz for the 4.5m rod. I think any one of those factors would cut sales potential. All three together make it specialty a rod I would happily order for someone but probably won't keep in stock.

I get a fair number of questions about whether a tenkara rod can be used for steelhead. The answer is no. The rod above is a carp rod (not a hera rod) and it might (but then again, it might not - I've never caught a steelhead).

If any one wants one, though, send me a PM.