Originally Posted by NJTroutbum
Absolutely. Smaller diameter, for stronger strength. Plus the fact if goes sub surface. I have done tests and I am a believer...so is the two gentlemen that were with me.
Absolutely. Smaller diameter, for stronger strength. Plus the fact if goes sub surface. I have done tests and I am a believer...so is the two gentlemen that were with me.
I'm in the same boat. I tried fluoro, still have some. For the price; it doesn't offer enough advantage/benifit over mono to justify 3x $$$.
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.
- Frank Sinatra
Like most everything else in fly angling ...
... it depends. On a bunch of different things, including what kind of water you are on, what kind / size flies you are using, and what kind of fishies you are targetting.
In my case, the cost is secondary, but I simply don't need fluoro for fishing big flies ( both dries and nymphs ) in freestone streams and rivers.
If I was fishing the same kind of water you are, Joni and Ralph, for the same kind of fishies ( and neither one of you qualified your position with that kind of information ), I might think fluoro would give me some advantage.
All things being equal, fluoro may give a slight edge in presentation to the angler who needs it.
John
The fish are always right.
A bit smug, but that's okay, but that is how you seem to roll these days. I fish same water as you, just different places. I fish Trout, Grayling, Brookies, Golden. Plus I fish Bass (LM SM WB) I fish Carp, Crappy Bluegill. I fish Stillwater, Rivers, Creeks and Streams, and at times puddles.
I like fluoro. I like 5' to 7' leaders.
Do I NEED fluoro...absolutely not. Do I need to fish high end gear, absolutely not. Way to stereo type.
Just teasing you two a bit is all. I guess the
John
The fish are always right.
So was I....note my
Besides, I would think a furled leader would be more an aid then the type of tippet.
As I said, I do fish #30's and I am not one to try 7 or 8 and that 6X fluoro threads nicely in those micros.
On the other had, the big bad Carp, I am able to use 8 lb on them.
I am heading to the 10,000 lakes and streams this weekend. Should be fun.
I target mainly trout, primarily in limestone streams. The occasional spring creek. But I prefer it as well for poppers and bluegill spiders also. For the better abrasion resistance. I have fished a few streams in the winter, where the difference has been Flouro x10 and Mono zero. Shocked me. The 2 people fishing flouro were the only folks gettign strikes...all else was identicle, down to the indicator depth. And when the folks fishing mono switched, the strikes came. That was fishing beadhead nymphs. It's less visible...my best guess.
In the defense of the nail knot, here's the last sentence in one of the many places where you can find Lefty's description, "then trim the tag end flush with the coils." That by itself eliminates the hang up on the guides problem mentioned. I trim both the tag end of the leader plus the tag end of the line "flush," as he says. That being so I generally only use it on the stream preferring a whipped loop, or the no knot, super glue, connection that Joni mentions when I have time and tools. I also firmly believe that trying to catalog the multitude of situations where folks choose leaders, tippets and such is nicely summed up with her statement about seats and butts.
By the way have any of you tried tying a needle knot in or an intermediate, clear sink line? Or for that matter a nail knot? I found the braided loop or a whipped loop to be the solution for it's lack of core.
Above I read, "Drag is caused by the leader / tippet pulling or pushing a fly off course of a fully natural drift of that fly with the current. The thickness of the leader / tippet has nothing to do with that happening." Interesting statement but it does seem to fly in the face of physics. Drag is due to the water interacting with the tippet/leader/line combo. Big heavy material, much drag, very light material less drag, thicker material, much more drag, thinner material, much less drag. Am I missing something? A fly line and leader butt is thick by design and thinner tippet is one way of reducing drag based on diameter alone. Another reason for longer tippets is to allow or to create some deliberate slack where the leader doesn't lay out straight but rather allows or causes the tippet to lie down curved, etc thereby allowing the tippet a longer float before it straightens and produces drag. Finer tippet, by the way, is harder for the fish to sense and see, but again that's nothing but physics talking!
As for FC, again physics to the rescue, it is more dense and more closely matches the optic properties of the water so reason tells us that it might just give a slight edge when it come to a fish seeing it, not to mention the other factors mentioned above such as it's sinkabilty. Other reasons folks, "remember butts and seats," use it is for it's abrasion resistance. Add all this together and it?s easy to see why many Tarpon anglers like a Shock Tippet made of 60-120lb FC.
As for the Perfection Loop--it has it's place but beware as it's pitifully weak and not to be used with your class tippet, or as most folks say your "tippet" as it weakens it this immensely. The Improved Clinch is almost in this same boat rating at around 60-70% of tippet strength when you could be getting 90-100% with another knot.
Finally getting to the x factor, the Orvis chart gives recommendations and remember, "butts and seats," and it is a good chart and certainly you can deviate but my bet is that it's close to spot on given that folks ranging from Lefty Kreh, to Ritz, McLaine and many other experts with hundreds of years experience is where that chart comes from. Say you use the Trilene Knot for most of your tying the fly on. How small a hook eye can you get your tippet two times through? Good discussion folks and the article was certainly a bit of meat to chew on!
Last edited by Chuck S; 08-10-2012 at 03:25 AM.
Good Fishing,
Chuck S (der Aulte Jaeger)
"I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved"
http://fishing-folks.blogspot.com/
The reference ...
... to thickness regarded the thickness of furled leaders, not mono leaders. That is what you are missing, Chuck. Thread furled leaders are more supple at the thickest part of the butt than 5X tippet mono leaders are at the thin end of the 5X tip.
Here are some pix posted on an earlier thread about the relative suppleness of thread furled leaders and mono tippet -
Rio powerflex 6X tippet.
Danville 210 FlyMaster Plus thread furled leader butt.
Danville 210 FlyMaster Plus thread furled leader tip.
The suppleness is the key - instead of having several feet of relatively stiff mono, you have several feet of material ( wet thread ) more supple than most of the tippet most people use, and during the drift there is generally slack in that supple section of the furled leader, so it is pretty much like having air between the end of the fly line and the actual tippet material.
John
P.S. The thread furled leader was dry when the pix were taken, they are more supple when wet.
The fish are always right.
What everyone needs to remember is that this is just fishing. Fun, yes, relaxing, I hope so, world changing, not a chance. If you like flurocarbon and beleive it's better, then use it, but remember, others may not share your view point, and that's just fine. Remember, this is just fishing. Do you like furled leaders, great, use them and be happy. But remember, others may not share your views and that's just fine. Remember, this is just fishing. And one final thought - for several centuries people caught fish on horsehair leaders, and then they caught fish on gut leaders, and many of us caught lots of fish - even record fish - on nylon leaders that would make most of the people that use the modern stuff shake their heads in disbelief. The point is that there is room in fly fishing for the person that finds satisfaction in making and using furled leaders, there is a place in fly fishing for people that use tapered, knotless leaders and for those that prefer to 'roll their own." I can't repeat it often enough - remember this is just fishing.
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