More controversy over Elwha restoration after dam removal

[Kerry Stratton]

Why do we have to supply fish to anyone? Fishing is not what is important. Fish are.

[Chuck S]

Sounds good in theory but fails miserably in practice. Give a person a real stake in the outdoors as an angler or hunter and they'll support conservation beyond belief as evidenced by the many and varied successes of fisheries and game animals all over the US. Take that away and you'll soon have a cause without interest adn the wildlife suffers.

[NJTroutbum]

Sounds good in theory but fails miserably in practice. Give a person a real stake in the outdoors as an angler or hunter and they'll support conservation beyond belief as evidenced by the many and varied successes of fisheries and game animals all over the US. Take that away and you'll soon have a cause without interest adn the wildlife suffers.

Very well said. Sportsmen are the single most effective stewards of our wildlife this country has.

[Kerry Stratton]

Sounds good in theory but fails miserably in practice. Give a person a real stake in the outdoors as an angler or hunter and they'll support conservation beyond belief as evidenced by the many and varied successes of fisheries and game animals all over the US. Take that away and you'll soon have a cause without interest adn the wildlife suffers.

I agree. However, take a look at the lawsuit filed. It was filed by a number of outdoor sports and conservation groups and no where in the suit does it mention fishing opportunity. These groups are made up of average anglers and hunters along with conservationists (which I believe most anglers and hunters are). They, we, know its about the fish. Recover the fish first. Then there will be opportunity.

[Chuck S]

There were four groups on the lawsuit I believe however I've not been able to find any stats on their composition. I know a bit in general about them but I always guage similar groups on how much they are into the green at any cost movement versus commonsense green alongwith their track record on saving the fish. Here's a question, a follow up to my post above on the Chanbers Creek fish, those awful, nasty hatchery demons. In the Great Lakes they do well, give folks a lot of fish to catch and are providing strays into the watershed and adjacent creeks and streams to increase the wild fish inhabiting them. Sure seem as if the wild fish in the NW aren't faring as well. Wonder why? Perhaps some folks have got it wrong and may'be it's time to, "Get the Nets Out."

Here's a bit more from a game and fish forum illustrating what I said above: "The proposed Chambers Ck hatchery steelhead will be released near the head of tidewater according to what I was told. Some of them will undoubtedly escape and stray as returning adults. Everything we currently know about this in studied systems show that the stray rate decreases with distance from the rearing and release site. That means it's far more likely for strays to spawn in the lower river rather than migrate into the upper river upstream of the release sites. Other data, like the Skagit steelhead genetic study show that the Chambers Ck have a low reproductive success rate, but that they do in fact survive at a rate high enough to cause some genetic introgression. However the amount is low and is not considered to jeopardize the native wild steelhead population. Hatchery steelhead programs are legal under the ESA. They have to be located and operated to minimize the effects on the wild population, but they needn't be prohibited. I think the plaintiffs are going to have a difficult to impossible case to make and prove. There is also the legal standard of the courts giving deference (for better or worse) to the federal agencies charged with implementing the law. And so far the federal agencies have approved and issued permits to hatchery programs, including those that release Chambers Ck steelhead.

http://www.gamefishin.com/community/...st=0&sk=t&sd=a
There, read the entire thread as it explains why the suit will or will not fail as severa lawyers chime in.

By the way in that thread it discusses in length how the Elwha Tribe isn't named as a plaintiff and how without thier full cooperation this will have problems.

[NJTroutbum]

Some of what you say reminds me of a time fishing the Ft Lewis side of the Nisqually river. I watched the tribe in a boat, checking nets.....milking chums for the eggs and dropping the carcasses back into the river. And saw them pull a good 1/2 dozen HUGE cutthroat out of the nets and toss them like unwanted suckers...dead. That was my introduction to the tribes and netting.

[Kerry Stratton]

Some of what you say reminds me of a time fishing the Ft Lewis side of the Nisqually river. I watched the tribe in a boat, checking nets.....milking chums for the eggs and dropping the carcasses back into the river. And saw them pull a good 1/2 dozen HUGE cutthroat out of the nets and toss them like unwanted suckers...dead. That was my introduction to the tribes and netting.

I was an owner/operator of a Puget Soung gill netter for 14 years, worked on purse sieners and done a bit of reef netting. I have seen a good portion of the commercial fishing industry from the inside. The indian commercial fishermen are not doing anything less or more than a citizen commercial fisherman would do.

[Kerry Stratton]

http://www.gamefishin.com/community/...st=0&sk=t&sd=a
There, read the entire thread as it explains why the suit will or will not fail as severa lawyers chime in.

Good ol' gamefishin. I used to participate over there and still drop in once in awhile to see what new controversy they are discussing/creating. Interesting forum with some interesting views to say the least.

[Chuck S]

They have a good cross section of anglers for sure and great discussions. From above, "The indian commercial fishermen are not doing anything less or more than a citizen commercial fisherman would do." That is a moutful for sure and nets are nets and a super efficient way to catch fish. The trouble with them and the industry is that it's a lot like Commercial Hunting was before it was outlawed in most areas and states, they are way too non-selective, too efficient and unfortunately they all too often end up decimating the fish stocks they target. World wide it's been one species after another extinct or near extinct from the problems with managing this industry!

[NJTroutbum]

It doesn't matter who is doing it, what I witnessed was wrong. Whenver the roe alone is worthmore than the fish, that fish is doomed to commercial exploitation.

I watched 2 people in a jon boat, kill and waste more Sea-run cutthroat in 1 hr than I could hope to catch and kill in an entire season if I were to keep all my fish. Not to mention a handful of HUGE mature fish. That's one net.

Yet if I was to get stopped at my truck by a GW with 3 instead of 2 fish, they would throw the book at me and I would be a criminal. Why? Because sportsmen are the easiest target to manage, even though they are a drop-in-the-bucket when it comes to the problem. Get the nets out of the rivers. AND out of the mouths of the rivers.