Fishpond and HSUS

[NJTroutbum]

PA Dave, Very good point made. Mine has already been sent.


Dear Brodin,


While browsing your shop in search of a replacement net back for my 15yr old "Trout" net, I came across your add for the organization "Greenpeace". & I was shocked. I am very familiar with this organization, which in fact is NOT a friend of Sportsmen in any way, shape or form! I am frustrated to hear that a company that is supported by sportsmens dollars would align themselves in any way to an organization such as Greenpeace. Sadly, I will not be seeking a replacement net bag for a net that has become an old friend on the water.

Sincerely,

Ralph Long

[mnklagoon]

It all started with "Patagonia"

[phishtales]

Interesting discussion. I'm all for using your money to support organizations and causes with which you agree and keeping your money from those organizations and causes with which you disagree. I can't disagree with anyone's personal decision to support or oppose Fishpond here.

I respectfully disagree with the characterization of the HSUS as part of the animal rights movement. I've spent a fair amount of time reading literature from conservation and animal organizations of all types. HSUS would be better understood as an animal welfare, rather than an animal rights organization. PETA and the Animal Liberation Front would both be animal rights organizations. The animal rights groups see no distinction, from a moral perspective, between (in their language) human animals and nonhuman animals. From that point of view, it you aren't willing to do it to a human animal (like eat one, wear one, use one for testing) don't do it to nonhuman animals. The animal welfare groups see a distinction between human animals and nonhuman animals. Animal welfare organizations find a use for nonhuman animals in human society. Animal welfare groups, like HSUS, oppose what they see as waste of the nonhuman animal resource. In the particular example raised above, HSUS opposes shark fishing tournaments where the sharks are killed. There is persuasive evidence that overfishing of sharks causes a host of ripple effects throughout the ocean ecosystem. I am willing to be wrong, but I have not run across any literature indicating that HSUS wants to ban sport fishing altogether. My guess is that HSUS would support sport fishing that does not impact sustainable fisheries. HSUS would probably oppose the use of some hypothetical hook or line that injures more fish than other similar products.

[rizeye]

phish

you need to look into the HSUS's past. they have reworded there messg because they were exactly like PETA and ALF, to extreme to be taken seriously by the general public, so they revamped their messg to seem normal. but the leadership is the same, wayne pacelle and heidi prescott, go way back with animal rights, do reseach.

http://activistcash.com/biography_qu...-wayne-pacelle

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...eer-population

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_...oup-believe-it
Heidi Prescott

Former wildlife rehabber Heidi Prescott is national director of The Fund for Animals. Founded in 1967 by author and animal rights advocate Cleveland Amory, The Fund for Animals is one of the nation's largest and most active animal protection organizations.

http://consumerfreedom.com/news_deta...litant-beliefs

[phishtales]

Rizeye,

The links you have posted are indeed damning. It should be said that there are lots of ties between organizations and individuals in the animal welfare and the animal rights movement. That doesn't mean the two groups are the same. They have philosphies that differ in important ways, even if they often find common ground. Wayne Pacelle came to the HSUS from the Fund for Animals and the Sea Ship Conservation Society, both groups who would fall in the animal rights movement. It is somewhat unfair to attribute to HSUS comments made by Mr. Pacelle before he joined the group. The quotes in the activistcash website and the article from the Baltimore Sun are events that occurred prior to Mr. Pacelle joining the HSUS.

I have found little evidence that Mr. Pacelle's worldview has had much of an impact on HSUS's activities. Again, I have happy to be proven wrong. HSUS has traditionally acted as an animal welfare organization. The activities they continue to pursue, like the one Fishpond agrees with, are consistent with an animal welfare philosophy.

I admit the websites you have directed us to are new to me. I would encourage you do to the same thing you encourage me to do - research. The Center for Consumer Freedom is not exactly an objective mouthpiece for reasoned argument supported by logic and empirical evidence. (The same can be said for HSUS.) It is a lobby group for the restaurant industry. The media has exposed the CCF on more than one occassion for misinformation campaigns (including one against HSUS).

Rather than reading secondary sources, why not read the primary ones? From my review of the HSUS literature, the group promotes animal welfare, not animal rights. Based on my review, I simply disagree with the CCF.

I still think this is an interesting discussion and an important one. I again encourage members of this community to vote with their $$$.

[NJTroutbum]

You cannot disregard an organizations actions based on their own advertising literature. Wayne Pacelle is not a friend to sportsmen & women. He is against the killing of fish for the purpose of sport. Meaning you fishing for recreation, and then keeping a fish where legal. You fishd for your enjoyment....and injured another "non-human". The last thing I would go by is their own propoganda. How long until they justify a 2% or 5% mortallity rate as a reason to stop C&R? The HSUS IS NOT the humane Society.

[rizeye]

phish

you seem to defend or at least sympathize with HSUS. what is your affiliation, if i may ask. also i'd like to know where they spend there money. what groups are they supporting? I know what I've heard from HSUS in the past. just because they've learned to temper their rhetoric recently does not mean they have changed what they say behind the web page. they are a threat and always will be a threat to what we like to do most - fish.

[jeffnles1]

I just went to Fishpond's website. At the bottom is a Contact Us link. I used it to inform them that as long as they partner with HSUS, I will not be buying any more of their products. I cannot support an organization that is opposed to hunting and sport fishing, and I cannot support a company who supports such an organization. It's just that simple.

I have a Fishpond Vest that I like very much and a Fishpond duffel / wader bag that is bullet proof. I'm not going to throw away either of these items, but later this summer when it comes time to buy another vest ro replace my old one, it will NOT be a Fishpond (that is unless they cancel that pertnership).

I think all who have made comments here need to go to their website and let them know personally how you feel. The fly fishing industry is small and any lost customers over something like this is going to hit them where it counts.

Jeff

[flyguy66]

HSUS used to be very vocal...even in their own literature...about their eventual goals of putting an end to sport hunting and fishing. They came to realize after a few years of getting beat up by the hook & bullet activists like me that they would have to take that stuff underground if they wanted to continue their growth. So they revamped their literature and stopped mentioning it in speeches. But they've never recanted those positions. They just state parts of them now, like putting an end to kill tournament fishing...even just kill tournament shark fishing, since saving sharks is "hip" right now because it's so counter-culture. They get a lot of money from George Soros, the founder of Moveon.org. This guy is a radical of the first order who funds PETA and almost every far left org you can think of. He's not only anti-hunting and fishing, he wants a complete ban on firearms and a re-write of the US Constitution. He is a strong supporter of one-world-government. They don't come any further out there. With Soros' money behind them, HSUS has made major in-roads into the Fortune 500 board rooms for more funding and legitimacy. They've grown exponentially. And now they're getting what they really wanted for years: hunting and fishing businesses to partner with them on affinity causes. Phineas T. Barnum said it best when it comes to Americans, "There's a sucker born every minute." And it is because Americans are poorly informed and unaware of history and current affairs. We are naive and incredibly optimistic.

P.S. Don't ask me to source my post. If you want background, go find it yourself. It's all out there. You just have to dig beyond the first 2 pages of your favorite search engine. You can't just Google HSUS. You have to do a complete background investigation on Soros. You have to know how to do historical research on Moveon.org and the one-world-government movement. You need to research Soros and Moveon's role in anti-Second Amendment fights at the local, state, and national level, along with other Constitutional legal battles. And you have to a complete bio background on the board members (not executives) at HSUS. The board sets strategic policy folks. The executives just...well...execute it. If I sourced my post for you...well..."give a man a fish and he eats for a day."

[phishtales]

Good responses.

Jeff - I fully support your decision to let Fishpond know where you stand. I don't own any Fishpond products. Too pricey for my tastes.

Rizeye - I have zero affliation with HSUS, ALF, PETA, Greenpeace, the ASPCA, Sierra Club etc. I support our local animal shelter. Our last dog (who passed this summer) was a shelter dog. I hunt and fish, but not as much as I would like. I have no problem with people who hunt or fish for meat and stay within the bag limits. I don't get trophy hunting. I practice catch and release most of the time, occassionally I'll keep some fish. I read about environmental issues a lot. Years ago, in grad school, I wrote a several papers about the various environmental and animal movements.

I continue to respectfully disagree with those who characterize HSUS as a bunch of animal rights wackos. Although I loathe the website, I'll refer everyone to the HSUS entry on wikipedia. It is a fairly accurate summary of the history of the Humane Society in the United States. HSUS's original purpose was to promote animal welfare, not animal rights. I disagree that they have recently tempered their rhetoric to make it more palatable to the masses. If anything, the exact opposite has occurred. As individuals like Wayne Capelle and Heidi Prescott have become influential within the organization, HSUS has become more, for lack of a better word, radical. If you choose to disassociate yourself from HSUS because its president made contentious comments years before he was affiliated wtih the organization, so be it.

Again, I will retract my comments and admit I am wrong if anyone can point to an HSUS program that ultimately seeks to end sport fishing. I don't see it. The evidence presented so far against HSUS is not persuasive. HSUS opposes factory farming practices. Were HSUS to have any success in with their factory farm agenda, it would impact the cost of food and impact the restaurant industry, among others. The CCF (the lobby organization for the restaurant industry), as part of their agenda, seeks to undermine HSUS's credibility. The CCF does that by associating HSUS with organizations that the mainstream public finds too radical.

Flygut - wow. I won't head down the Soros path. It is entirely possible, but hardly plausible, that Capelle and Prescott have orchestrated a conspiracy to transform the HSUS into the NRA of the animal rights world. Yes, those are Capelle's words from years ago.

I certainly understand everyone's concern about the more radical groups. I probably won't be able to convince anyone who posted that the HSUS, at least historically, is not one of those groups. I appreciate your responses and hope that those who read them at least consider what I've written. I've really got no dog in this fight. I am not a member of HSUS. I merely disagree that they are an organization unworthy of support.