No need to, it appears the bait I'm using now is attracting its share of snobs...Originally Posted by jszymczyk
No need to, it appears the bait I'm using now is attracting its share of snobs...
after spending time with my son and watching him get frustrated with a regular fly rod I am thinking more and more that I need to get him a tenkara rod just to simplify things a lot and give hium less to think about, you know? I love the look of it and I am planning on actually getting myself one here in the near future, but I am going after a sage smallmouth or bluegill rod real fast before ( I'm a shore stomper and those things jsut answer the call for nailing the shadows of an island the fish like to hide around....)
It's so simple even my baby girl of two can fly cast a leader tied to stik. ( alright it's a furled leader made from yarn, but she still gets a kick " fishing' our living room. and yet, I'm dying to get one for my trips out to the rivers i have out here in the desert. simple is best.
My mom says it's all physics. I say that's my problem.. Just look at my old report cards....
That would make it easier, but if you want them to fly fish, the frustration comes with the LEARNING. Getting them into Tenkara could kill any idea of ever learning the Traditional.
One thing I learned on Traditional, is screw the over head, that is asking for trouble. Point the rod at the water, shake the tip and feed line out. Lift rod tip straight up with line dropping slightly behind forming a "D" and flip.
No wind knots, not stuck in shrubs not to mention much safer casting Split Shot and Indicators.
Plus, isn't that basically what you are doing with a Tenkara?
Don't limit tenkara
I posted this today on TenkaraUSA in answer to a post on the weights of tenkara rods:
"Okay guys. Ever the contrarian, I have to agree and disagree. As many of you know if you read my posts, I do a lot of non-traditional tenkara fishing. I don't always relate my exploits here because sometimes I use rods that are not tenkarausa rods and out of respect and admiration for Daniel, I do not write about other available equipment.other than lines and flies.
Okay, for the topic at hand: I suspected that tenkara rods are underated as to strength so I have been experimenting a lot to see for myself. I have since the beginning used 4x to 0x tippets and have never broken tip because I was landing a fish on heavy tippet. Today I took a perfectly good 1 wt forward Orvis line and cut off the first 30 feet. I did the same with the first 30 feet of a DT 6 wt line. I put leaders on both and then attached a backing loop to the rear end of both. First I tried the 30 feet of One weight line. No problem casting the whole thing except when in the wind. I changed and used the 30 feet of double taper six weight. It was a revelation!. The rod that casts the lightest of lines with ease handled this 30 foot traditional line with ease. Not too surprising to me, my 11 foot Iwana performed even better as did another manufacturer's 6:4 rod. I suspect a 7:3 rod could probably handle even heavier lines. This is important because it means fewer limitations and much more flexibility with all tenkara rods. The rods roll cast this heavier line with ease. There are only two limitations that are readily obvious. You have to hand over hand the fish in at the end (I do this all the time because I already fish longer lines with heavier tippets). If you can't back up on a river or shoreline, then a fish swimming right at you can be a problem (less if you are using a barbed hook which I do sometimes if I have every intention of eating the fish (warmwater and saltwater situations for me-it has been years since I purposely harvested a trout).
I thought about this because I have had both bamboo and fiberglass and graphite regular fly rod and reel combos that would collapse under certain line weights and then perform exceptionally well with a line two or sometimes even three weights heavier than rated under certain conditions and vice versa.
The reason for this is because rods perform differently based upon what part of the rod is doing the work. With long light tip sections, tenkara rods can cast very light near weightless lines. This is perfect for stream situations traditionally described and taught on this and other sites. But because of the length of these rods, they have tremendous butt strength. It takes a very heavy line to bend the rod deep enough to get into and exploit this strength. Once you realize this, however, it greatly expands your horizons. With the right line leader combination I can use all my tenkara rods from 9 footers to 13 footers and other rod/poles that are even longer and cast 1/0 Clousers and big bass bugs and 1/8th ounce hand tied jigs. I can use lighter spinning lures, bass worms, baits, etc. just by adjusting lines and tippets.
The lifting power of these rods is amazing but just as with traditional fly rod and reel setups, you do have to be careful with over stressing the rods by the bend you put in them when you snag or when you lift a heavy fish.
So there you have it. I don't know what weight my tenkara rods are but they will handle fish at least as well as a six weight traditional fly rod and reel, and I routinely used to land steelhead up 35 1/2" on my 5wt 4pc 8'3" Sage DS fly rod configured with a 6 or 7wt line (always heavier than rated) and old Pflueger Medalist fly reel. I don't know yet if I can do that on a tenkara rod because I haven't hooked one yet to know. I do know that have landed bigger fish than I thought because the long rods can absorb the shock of big fish.
Experiment. You might be pleasantly surprised."
Randy
Not disagreeing with you Randy ...
... on what length and weight of line these rods can handle, but there is one more obvious limitation that should be mentioned ( see post 123 above ).
With the longer lines you can only fish effectively at or close to the maximum reach of the line you have on.
With a normal tenkara line / leader / tippet set up you probably are fishing a total of about 12-16' of "stringy stuff" off the end of the rod. Since you can lift the rod tip that high, or higher, you can fish from the maximum reach of the rod plus string, say 25-30', down to right in front of your feet, say a foot or two.
Once you get past that "normal" length of line, there is some amount of water within your maximum reach that you can't fish, and the longer your line, the larger the amount of water, and the further out it is from your position. For example, if you have 30' of "stringy stuff" there is no way you can set the hook and keep pressure on a fish that eats your fly 2' or 10' or 15' or maybe even 20' away from you.
If you are in a situation where you can move easily closer to or further from spots, or rising fish, that you want to fish to, longer lines can be a lot of fun to fish. But if you want the flexibility to cover all the water from your feet out to the maximum reach of your rig, you have to keep the lines shorter, depending on the length of the rod and how high you can llft it above the surface of the water.
John
The fish are always right.
Good point John. I rarely fish with lines, leaders, and tippets that exceed twice the rod length. I was only saying that the rods would do more if necessary. I usually carry an old tippet wallet with several lines for the rod I am using so I can switch if the situation (fish) demands it. I fish tenkara style with more than just tenkara rods. I currently use the Ayu and 11' Iwana from TenkaraUSA but I also use the 9' and the 13' Wakata from Allfishingbuy as well as some of his Hera rods and another pole. I have a 15' and 21' Hera. Traditional fly line running lines or short sections of traditional fly line enable me to fish larger flies if necessary as well as roll cast better. The fluorescent yellow lines at Allfishingbuy are the most visible lines I have cast and are perfect for the kind of fishing you have been doing. I just never mention other retailers when I am on another retailer's site.
Randy
Just when I got my collection of rods, reels, lines and tying materials just the way I wanted them... I find out all I need is a 12 foot pole, a piece of string and one style of fly. Well, I won't be giving up traditional western style fly fishing but, I did order a rod, line and a bottle of flies from TenkaraUSA. I hope to try both (Western and Tenkara) on a couple of spring creeks in the Smokies early next year. The way the weather is going here I may also try a couple local streams and see if there are any fish in them. Appreciate the thread, it has been helpful in my selection.
Last edited by billhouk; 11-23-2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Spelling
Here is another advantage to the Tenkara.
Yesterday my friend of mine came for the week and he has not been fishing in a long. He also has a 10yo. So as my friend went and lost flies slipped on the rocks I took the boy. This was the first time the boy really got to fish, although he was using a spinning rod. He ended up catching two fish with that rod. So now you are probably saying where does the Tenkara rod come into. Well while I was helping the boy I had the rod collapsed and stuck in my waders, out of the way just waiting until it was my turn.
Since I bought my Tenkara rod, the biggest advantage to it is, it is always in my trunk.
I set up a small Tenkara minimalist bag and keep that along with a hat and sunglasses in my car. I am lucky enough to have lots of fishing spots that are accessible from the bank and a minute or two from my house. If I want to stop someplace for 30 minutes or less, I am set-up and ready to fish in 5 minutes! If I need to wade or expect a longer excursion I hopefully had enough brains to plan ahead and bring along the extra stuff that is needed. But even if I had plans to fish with a regular rod on those planned trips, having the Tenkara rod with me all the time gives me another option if I choose.
In regards to lines and line lengths as discussed above; I have found that when bank fishing, especially when the stream bank is elevated above the water; an extra long line is important if you want to keep the line off the water and get any length to a cast. I have a 2.5 times and 3 times length line that does the trick for me in those situations. Hopefully those aren't windy days!
I'm with Bamboozle on line length, when I'm fishing a still water lake or pond from shore, I also like to fish a 25-30' line. Just personal preference, but I like the extra range.
"People tend to get the politicians and the fishing tackle they deserve" -
John Gierach, Fishing Bamboo
http://www.tenkaraflyfish.blogspot.com/
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