Dead-beat Tyers

[Valhalla 1]

I choose to look at the overwhelming goodness of this board, and forget the few who may have had life smack them in the face.

I agree. It's easy to remember the one thing that went wrong and forget the hundred that went right...human nature.

Personally, I haven't tried to join any swaps yet because my own schedule can be so erratic that the likelyhood I would meet the commitment is pretty low. I think anyone entering into something like this should be realistic about what they can and cannot do.

Maybe someday.

[Gigmaster]

I guess I would meet the qualifications for a Dead-Beat Tyer. My set of flies for last months swap were stolen from the mail, and all the swapmeister got was an empty envelope. This was the 3rd time in 3 months this had happened. Luckliy, the other times, I had time to tie replacements and still get them in on time, but I was out of town for a good bit in March. When I found out about it, it was too late to tie a replacement set and send them, even by overnight. I am still livid over the situation. All I could do was complain to the Postmaster here, and he was remarkably unconcerned. Not only did he refuse to refund my postage, he even hinted that I was at fault for not using a more expensive mailing option, like Certified, or Express! So our Post Office seems like it is now in the extortion business. I reported them to the Regional Office, the FBI, wrote a Letter To The Editor in the local paper, and called it in to the local TV news stations. I also complained to my elected officials. That ought to keep them busy at the Post Office for a while. I'll bet they remember me next time I go in with a box of flies.

In the meantime, I did tie up a replacement set, and included them in this months swap, so everyone will get the flies I owe them. (And don't worry, I sent them by Fed-Ex this time). I sincerely hope this will square things with everyone. I don't want to be thought of as a Dead-Beat Tyer. I really enjoy our swaps.

Semper ephemeroptera!

[jdubach]

My original post stated dead-beat tyers are those who don't complete the swap and DON'T contact the swapmeister at all about anything. If you contacted your swapmeister about this issue. Heck the empty envelope is proof you made great efforts to be a responsible tyer.

I'm talking about the complete no-shows with no explanation ever.

[Bass_Bug]

I just saw this thread and would like to revive it, as I was part of a swap last October and after the Meister acknowledged receiving all the flies, disappeared and has not posted or been heard from since.

Not saying a "LIST" is worth it or not, but posting in the swap area should be done at a minimum. I have no problem with calling out someone who failed to fulfill their obligation. I would start with posting simple request for an update.

There is probably a different explanation for every late, or no-show tyer, and many are valid excuses, but I think everyone will agree that communication is the key to a successful swap. I have a problem with tyers signing up then not posting for month and then saying "My flies are in the mail". I prefer to see regular posts from the tyers so I know they are still interested and participating. I feel once a tyer signs up he/she has an obligation to post with regular updates. That's part of the swap, if you cant do that, don't sign up.. This should include stating things like "I'll be out of town for a week, I'll check back in when I get back", so every knows whats going on.

-For those tyers whose job, life or family take them on the road for weeks at a time, should not be committing to a swap in the first place. If you have a busy schedule like this, then one has absolutely no business HOSTING a swap either.

-Swap Meisters should indeed check there swap everyday and make regular posts asking for updates. It's the Meisters job to keep everyone moving and motivated. Use idle threats if necessary. Screw the PM's, EVERYONE should know whats going on.

-For those tyers that sign up and fail to post anything after the initial sign up, Meisters should post a public request for confirmation and if they don't reply within several days, should be dropped from the swap.

-For those tyers that sign for multiple swaps at the same time? This is a VERY BAD idea unless you're retired, have no busy lifestyle or have the tying discipline to tie your flies in one sitting. Novice tyers should be banned for even THINKING of doing this. Ok that's an exaggeration, but you get the point.

Yes swaps should be fun first and foremost, but inconsideration on the tyers part kills the fun of everyone else. I put 100% effort in my swap flies. I expect the same in return. Meisters should not be afraid to drop the tyer from their swap and announce it publicly if a tyer fails to respond to a request for an update.

The hospitalization of a Meister is definitely beyond prediction, however objectively, If I had received 10 or 11 packages of flies and was suddenly hospitalized before the last batch was receive and the flies could be sent back out, I would expect my family to show at least a passing interest in what to do with the flies. After all, my family calling my employer to report my condition should be a no-brainer as well right? The swap is just another obligation. If one's family doesn't know what going with you hosting swap, then you suck at communication in the first and have no business hosting swap. Unless you're comatose or live alone there no excuse for SOME kind of action or communication form the Meister.

Hard @ss or not, the bottom line is if you commit to a swap, you play by the swap rules or don't play.

[Gigmaster]

I've been in probably 50+ swaps on this board, over the years, and in all that time, I have only been 'stiffed' twice. I think that's a pretty good record, and says a lot about the people on this Board. And in both cases, the Swapmiesters just dissappeared. To this day, I don't think anyone knows what happened. Obviously, something catastrrophic occurred, and I am more concerned about the well-being of the people, than about losing a few flies.

I didn't realize that there was that much of a problem with people not sending flies. Bass Bug may have a point.

Perhaps a 'Blacklist' of sorts could be maintained (discretely, of course), of people who are chronic "No-Shows", and could be banned from swaps for a period of time. Just an idea.....

For the most part, I believe our 'Honor' system works good. I hope our swaps continue to be as enjoyable as ever.

[kelkay]

People who sign up for a swap, and bow out due to unforseen circumstances don't bother me. Last year I was signed up for a few swaps, and was feeling stress about them. My father then had two illnesses and was hospitalized, then later died. It was hard to keep up with the swaps, and luckily I had most of them finished before he took up most of my time. I thought about bowing out of a couple of swaps, but did them anyway. I had to do an easier fly, but I did them. My father was in an ICU type situation, and I tied during times when we couldn't visit. Still lack of sleep and stress does not make for a good tying experience. What got me is one of the swaps I tied for people were late like crazy...and the swapmeister did not seem to think a thing about it. To me it is a commitment. I was also in the bass bug swap that we got burned on. Since then I have not had any desire to do any swaps for a while. I think swappers who are late twice should get banned from swapping for a year, then readmitted. Those swapmeisters who burn people on a swap should never be allowed to do a swap as a tyer, or a swapmeister. It doesn't have to be a public shame thing, but someone can send them a pm saying the condition of their swap terms. Someone who is good with computers could make a program that puts banned members in the program. They could be banned from the swap forum, but allowed to view anything or type on any other forum. An onscreen display could say sorry you cannot access the swap forum, privately. (by checking your ip addry) Just thoughts here.

[Eric-WD]

The Problem I have with a "List" is that then you have to have a criteria for getting on the list,. getting off the list etc.
I am thinking that if your the type of person who gets upset about a week over on a deadline due to waiting for someones flies that perhaps you should skip swaps and go fishing. I mean lets face it, non of us need these flies to make that next trip. I also think that people who are repeatedly late should also not swap.

Eric

[jeffro]

May I?
Just have 2 shame lists.
1 Late = 1 strike to the person=shame on you
2 lates'= outta the pool and you're on probation
3 lates'=your fired for x amount of months
1 No show =1 strike
2 No show =your Banned liddle fat buddy
and just keep the Thread locked and handy just like the rest of locked Forums= Very simple.
Show the list of persons that are guilty for the Swapmiesters use Mainly= easy

[PastorEd]

This is also why I no longer participate in swaps, I don't want to be a deadbeat swapper. In my line of work I have no idea when real life is going to jump up and make me miss a deadline, and while I loved the couple of swaps I was in, the time I had to drop out made me feal like such a creep, I vowed to never to do it again. If I can't be dependable, I just don't want to do it.

[jeffro]

Hello there PastorEd,
Sir if you ever want to sit at the bench and swap some flies,you just let me know and I will be happy to have just a one on one Fly swap with you.
I know we have never spoken or anything but I will sit at the bench with you if ya get frisky that way you wont feel the pressure of a timeline.
Just send me a PM and lets have some fun.....this is about all I do after work and on weekends anymore.
Jeffro