Why 25 to 30 pound test?

[Bamboozle]

Regarding your limp loop fly line question, again, it gets back to the fact that a flyline relies on mass to transfer energy, it doesn't have to be stiff. Mono has very little weight (i.e. mass), therefore in order to transfer energy it has to rely on being stiff, i.e. it works like a bow or fly rod to load and transfer energy.

A furled leader works like a fly line, it is supple but has a fairly large diameter, much thicker than straight mono. That's a key point to why furled leaders cast well, but are able to control drag because they can better conform to the current.

Color me still puzzled: If in fact furled leader has a larger diameter than mono and it's diameter is the reason why it it turns over well; why do you need a stiff mono loop at the end of your fly line?

Did you ever fish with a flat butt mono leader? They were all the rage in the 80's. They were limp as heck, no larger in diameter than regular mono of the same test and turned over a fly like nobody's business with a nice tight loop. That was back in the day when the thought process was limpness in a leader butt was where it was at. Most folks that used them attached them directly to the fly line so they didn't add stiffness with a round mono loop and create a subsequent hinging effect.

[wayneb]

Hi All;

A friend told me he chooses a line with a thickness & stiffness similar to the end of his fly line.

He demonstrated this by showing me his line with a mono loop attached where when he bent the leader to line connection, the bend was uniform from fly line to leader. I tried this method and found that it works well for me. He was using Maxima chameleon line but I've even used Berkley Vanish as a leader line loop connection and it works well with it also. I've used nail not & line threaded then superglued in to fly line and both work well.

Wayneb

[bazakwardz]

The important thing about that piece of mono you attach to your fly line is the diameter--not the breaking strength, mass, or stiffness. It should be 2/3-3/4 the diameter of your fly line and at least as big as the butt of your leader.

That's a basic principal of leader design according to Jason Borger and LeaderCalc. Going any smaller can cause the leader to hinge or turn over poorly. There's still some debate about whether stiff or supple mono is better.

[Normand]

The important thing about that piece of mono you attach to your fly line is the diameter--not the breaking strength, mass, or stiffness. It should be 2/3-3/4 the diameter of your fly line and at least as big as the butt of your leader.

That's a basic principal of leader design according to Jason Borger and LeaderCalc. Going any smaller can cause the leader to hinge or turn over poorly. There's still some debate about whether stiff or supple mono is better.

bingo! thats what ive been taught.

read the paragraph on the right side of this page for leader butt diameters vs fly line size.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wsH...um=7&ct=result

30lb mono butt diameter is pretty silly for a 2wt fly line imo

[pszy22]

Color me still puzzled: If in fact furled leader has a larger diameter than mono and it's diameter is the reason why it it turns over well; why do you need a stiff mono loop at the end of your fly line?

Did you ever fish with a flat butt mono leader? They were all the rage in the 80's. They were limp as heck, no larger in diameter than regular mono of the same test and turned over a fly like nobody's business with a nice tight loop. That was back in the day when the thought process was limpness in a leader butt was where it was at. Most folks that used them attached them directly to the fly line so they didn't add stiffness with a round mono loop and create a subsequent hinging effect.

Actually the best way to connect a furled leader is to nail knot it directly to the fly line, but it's not an easy knot to tie, and if you mess it up you may ruin the leader. (if you cut a furled leader, it will usually "unfurl" itself) The mono extension is purely for convenience. If your fly line already has a loop in it, you can loop a furled leader directly to the fly line, you wouldn't add a mono loop in that case. Or if you want to do away with loops entirely, attached your leader, furled or otherwise directly to your fly line.

Regarding flat mono, I personally use Amnesia, when I tie a mono extension. If I'm not mistaken, Amnesia is a flatten mono (plus I like the touch of color). I can't say I've done any calculations, but I think the idea behind flat mono is that the cross section behaves differently than round mono. Maybe somebody else knows for sure.

Of course you may not want to have your leader turn over and lay out flat, so there is nothing wrong with fishing a soft, limp leader. It may not look so pretty, but it helps to fight drag. That is one of the basic stated advantages of a furled leader, it turns over well, but isn't as stiff and unforgiving drag wise as a straight mono leader.

[DaleW]

20 lb maybe?

http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1231677280.jpg

[pszy22]

Hi All;

A friend told me he chooses a line with a thickness & stiffness similar to the end of his fly line.

He demonstrated this by showing me his line with a mono loop attached where when he bent the leader to line connection, the bend was uniform from fly line to leader. I tried this method and found that it works well for me. He was using Maxima chameleon line but I've even used Berkley Vanish as a leader line loop connection and it works well with it also. I've used nail not & line threaded then superglued in to fly line and both work well.

Wayneb

Great answer. That's probably the best way to practically test the connection,

[Bobinmich]

What Bazak said,

I use the same diameter as the leader butt of the leader, usually around .018 or 20# in some mono's. Then the loops lock together like they are a continuous piece of line connected to the fly line. Too small or too big creates a discontinuity and encourages a hinging action. Don't really like braided loops for that reason. But braided loops are short and stiffer than you might think so they are not too bad if installed correctly.

Godspeed and good fishing,

Bob

[WarrenP]

Boy, you people sure get a guy to thinking with all that input! So, what do you all think of this idea? I make my own furled leaders from Berkley 4 pound test Vanish and have Shorb loops in both ends. Would it work to use the Shorb loop as my loop on the end of my fly line? In other words I would be attaching the butt section to my fly line and leave a certain amount with the Shorb loop to use as my connection to the leader of choice. I then would cut off the rest of the furled leader. Now if you think this would work, what knot do you suggest I use for attaching the furled leader butt end to the fly line?

Well, what do all you think about this idea?

This is fun...

[Leo C]

Here's what I did. On my lines that did not have a factory welded loop I always had nail knoted my leader to the flyline. At a point that the leader needed replacing I just cut the leader leaving approx 1 foot of it attched to line. Then I just tied a perfection loop to that and done. Never had it fail yet.

Leo C