whiting 100's size 10 -- too small!

[flyty]

I bought some whiting 100's in grizzly died olive to tie some #10 green drake patterns, but the hackle is too small. I have a Griffin hackle gauge and none of the feathers measures a size 10, and only a couple measure size 12--the rest are 14's and 16's.

In addition, every feather has a short section where the barbs have been splayed out from the quill--in other words the hackle barbs are perpendicular to the quill in those sections. Those sections measure the widest when measured on my hackle gauge, and only a one or two reach size 12. In any case, isn't that cheating? You don't measure hackle size by first splaying out the barbs at a 90 degree angle from the quill.

I also measured the feathers against the hook gap of a #10 Tiemco 900BL and the feathers are barely one hook gap wide.

A.K. Best has a pattern called the Henry's Fork Green Drake Dun, and he clips the hackle even with the hook point on the bottom, but other patterns like Bob Quigley's Green Drake Quigley Cripple appear to use hackle that is 1 1/2 times the hook gap.

Should I return the Whiting 100 pack and just die my own--I just read about the Kool-Aid method?

[Bamboozle]

Fly:

You may have just got a mis-labled package. I always find the 100 packs to be a tad LARGER than I like if I go purely by the size on the package.

I also think the splayed out hackle fibers you describe is done purposely when the feathers are packaged so you can see what you are getting. Every 100 pack I have has that "look".

It isn't the answer you want to hear but I am VERY leery of any package of feathers that says it will do a certain size fly. Hackle length is a very subjective thing and gauges are only a guide. For that reason if I want to tie size 16 flies with 100 packs I buy size 16, 18 and if I'm in a particularly giddy mood, size 14. I end up using them matter what since I never tie a specific pattern in one size anyway.

Good luck!

[JohnScott]

Flyty -

I haven't bought any recently, but my experience is much like Bam's - the hackles run a bit bigger than the size stated on the package.

Definitely take ( send ) them back and ask for what you paid for, or your money back, if you want to try the kool aid approach.

John

[kengore]

Hackle sizing is a very subjective art. It can vary based on what portion of the feather taper is measured, on what type of hackle gauge is used, how much bend is placed on the stem when measuring, how large the gauges center post is vs. the actual diameter of the hook shank or fly body you are wrapping, etc. At best the pre-sized packages provide feathers that are a consistant size, but their size 10 might be closer to your size 12.

I like to strip the feathers from my necks and saddles and pre-sort them my self, even then I am surprised how inconsistant my own sorting can be. Last nights size 12 turns into a 14 when I use it a week later.

Like Bamboozle I usually find that the Whitings are oversized. I like using the 100's packs, but I usually I need to measure them myself and write the 'true' size on the package with a sharpie.

You might consider taking a hackle gauge with you and checking the actual barb length when you purchase. I think this variability is to be expected when working with natural materials.

I solved the Green Drake problem by buying a cheap 1/4 saddle in grizzly. I just pick out the sizes I want and dye them in small batches in the microwave. Most seasons I only need a dozen or so drake patterns, so even the purchase of the 100's pack seemed excessive.

Dyeing my own stuff turned out to be much simpler than I thought. Kool-Aid works but I prefer the color selection avialable in RIT dyes. RIT kelly green works well for western green drakes. I use an 8oz drinking glass, 1 cup water with a 1 tbls vinegar, and 1/2 to 1 tsp liquid dye. This is more than enough to dye a dozen or so saddle hackles. Heat the water to boiling, let it cool a bit and add the other ingrediants. Most colors take in about 30 min. to an hour.

That cheap 1/4 saddle has turned into lots of special use patterns, I've dyed some in green and yellow for drakes, orange and chartruse for wooly buggers, even bright red for gills on a sculpin pattern.

[Eight Thumbs]

Hi Flyty

I like the Whiting 100s packs and use them frequently. Over the last couple of years, I purchased more 100 packs than I care to tell my wife about. I have NEVER gotten feathers that are too small. As they other responses indicate, the feather usually run about one size larger. This doesn't bother me a whole lot because I tie and fish parachutes almost exclusively. You may have a packaging mistake on your hands as Bamboozle suggested. Give Whiting and/or your retailer a call and see what they have to say. Both should try to keep you happy for the sake of good relations. 8T

[flyty]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to return the Whiting 100's and try dying some of my grizzly feathers.

[flyty]

Follow up:

I returned the hackle today and went in search of dyes. RIT dye was $2.99 for one color and Kool-Aid was $.20 a pack, so I went with the Kool-Aid. I bought Lemonade(Yellow), Limeade(Green), and Orange.

Then after 30 minutes of searching through my Whiting grizzly half neck(Silver), I managed to find six size 10 hackles.

It doesn't appear that all the dyeing steps at the following link are necessary:

http://www.thepiper.com/fiberart/koo...sic-howto.html

Initially, I bought a pyrex dish, then a glass tumbler(cheaper), but I ended up using a stainless steel pot to do my dyeing in. I poured a quarter inch of water into the pot, guesstimated enough vinegar to approximate 3 parts water, 1 part vinegar, and then bit by bit I ended up with a whole pack of Yellow Kool-Aid in the mixture. Then I dumped two feathers in the pot, and I cooked them for about 5 minutes.

When they looked yellow enough, I fished my two feathers out of the pot with a fork, and I laid then on a paper towel.

Then I repeated the steps with the Green. I only needed about half a pack of Limeade to get a nice Kelly Green bath going. Then I dumped the four remaining feathers in the green bath, and this time after only about two minutes of cooking the feathers were well dyed. Then I used my fork again to fish out the feathers and lay them on the paper towel.

Finally, I filled the pot with some clean water, and I dumped the feathers in the water to wash them. After drying, I ended up with two nice yellow grizzly hackle feathers and 4 beautiful green grizzly hackle feathers. And I only had one spot of green dye on my thumb after I was done! The counters and stove top were clean as a whistle. Net cost: 3 x $.20 = $.60. And I can make myself a tall glass of Limeade or Orange Kool-Aid to celebrate.

Next up: my own flock of genetic roosters with a custom sprinkler system that sprays different colors of Kool-Aid on the flock during the midday heat. No, wait--I'll feed the Kool-Aid to the chickens!

[Eight Thumbs]

Hi Flyty,

You could become the next Dr. Tom Whiting with your rainbow-colored genetic hackle. You will have to prod Koolaid to develop new flavors so that you can continue to market different colors. I'm glad to hear that your dye worked so well. 8T

[kengore]

Glad to hear it worked out! Dyeing is small batches is so easy there is no reason not to give it a try.

Even at the higher price I find that a $12 investment in RIT dyes (primary colors red, yellow, blue plus black) has let me make almost any color I want, in the quantity I want, when I need it.

I live in a rural area, almost a 40 minute drive to a fly shop, running out for some olive dubbing is just not an option with $4 gas. Now I tend to buy bulk packages of white or grizzly feathers and fur and make up my own colors as I need them.

I recently scored a cheap hotel blanket ($4 at the thrift store) that is made of the same material the fly shops call 'furry foam' I cut it into lots of 6x10 squares and came up with about 16 color recipes over a weekend. Made enough furry foam to stock myself and a buddy for life, plus I now have a great 'color sample' board for future dye projects.

[flyty]

Well done kengore. I got a great sense of accomplishment after dying only 6 feathers, so I can imagine how you feel. I now insist that everyone call me "A.K.".

Thanks for all the help everyone.