Furled Leader Knots

[Bamboozle]

Oh, my other friends objection to the ring is the flash in the water. He wants nothing to scare

Gem:

The ring on my leaders is 1.5mm in diameter. The distance from my fly (and the fish targeted) is at least 5-6 feet. If the fish sees THAT...

...I'm giving up!

I use THREAD furled leaders now for 100% of my dry fly fishing and maybe 70% of my nymphing in shallower water. Some of us love them and others are unimpressed. All I know is I have fished with leaders of all types: extruded nylon, knotted nylon, flat butt mono, braided butt mono, poly coated nylon butt, furled mono, and every other new fangled leader that has come down the road.

For me and the way I like to fish the most which is LONG leaders and dry flies on bigger water and shorter leaders on smaller waters, the turnover of thread furled leaders is fantastic!

[Gemrod]

John and Bam
Thanks for the sharing of the knowledge. I appreciate it very much. I just know I like them. I think it is plain just because they are easier for me to see, handle, and deal with than a 9' clear piece of mono.

Bam....boy, sounds like you have had a lot of fun with a lot of butts. <grin>

I furled one out of Coats & Clark .005 nylon and one out of 4lb Vanish Transition Fluorcarbon. Both were a lot stiffer than thread. I like the thread a lot. Limp. I like soft things.

BTW I am just using Kat's video which starts out as 66". I put a movable furring strip in the middle of my end pegs and can adjust it to any stop after I twist. After I spun the 66" and furled I only had a 4'-9" leader. So I put in more holes for longer leaders.

I am working up to asking about my formula. Using her figures I calculated that first section is 30% and the next two sections are 35% of the beginning length. Is that an ok formula to go by for up to say 7-8' leader length? Example....7'=84"x110% (lose 10% in furling)= 92.4 round off to 92.5. Then I add an inch for each loop so 94.5 is what I use for end to end length for starters. Then I measure 7' plus two inches from the tippet end peg, and spin each leg to that 7'-2" point. Then once I let it furl and put a loop in each end...it should be very close to a 7' leader.

Is my 30x35x35 percentages good enough?

Thanks for any answers or opinions in advance.

Gem

[ducksterman]

"Is my 30x35x35 percentages good enough? ".....YEP

[JohnScott]

Gemrod -

I don't use Kathy's furling system. My furling jig is hand powered, for both twisting and furling. I use some set formulas given to me by the fellow who taught me the furling process using a set up similar to my own.

I do a 10-8-6 with a final length of about 64" with 40% butt, 30% mid and 30% tip, which is good for up to my 5 wt rod and about 5' of up to 2X tippet. I've done a 14-12-10 in the same 40-30-30 configuration, which does better on the 5 wt and will probably do okay on the 7 wt, if and when I get around to it.

I haven't tried to "max out" my tippet length, so I really do know how much I could put on and turn over effectively. Another thing I may get around to on a slow day, one of these days.

John

[pomperaugian]

I bought tippet rings when I started furling, but I much prefer to use a loop to loop (using a non-slip knot on the mono, not the weaker perfection loop).

Even a Shorb loop at the tip end of the furled leader strikes me as superfluous, but looping straight to the end of the leader may require a threader of some sort.

My furled leaders formulas are simply based on the number of inches of thread in each stage. Just a little math to work out how long to make each segment so that there is a percent reduction in the amount of thread from one segment to the next. (Spreadsheet job.)

[Bill Blake]

I've had the Castwell knot slip with a furled leader once before, but only after trying to dislodge a fly from tree limbs. If you pull on it the knot will hold, but I wouldn't count on it to stay 100% of the time using some of the common tricks for dislodging flies from trees that involved "springing: the line or whatever you would call it.

I think monofilament "bites" into the flyline better making this much less of a concern when not using a furled leader.

[Gemrod]

Duckster,......thanks for the confirmation. I am sort of an incurable optimist...buit do go with the averages a lot. Soooooo....thank you for the affirmation that the leaders I make will suffice.

Gemrod

[Gemrod]

Pomper...etc. Thank you for your opinion. All info goes into a brain deficient data bank. Appreciate all advice. I must disagree witih you though. Without the shorb's loop...and just tieing something into the furled leader tippet end...you are halving the strength of the knot...because you did not double over the loop. Just my opinion...the only one I am an expert on.

Gemrod

[Gemrod]

Bill,
Thank you for the post. I have no need for the tree release technique. Sooo...I will stay with JC's knot. Can you imagine over 5o lakes to choose from and 800 miles of trout streams and no need for the techniques? Well.....if you fish certain ones you will need some tricks up your sleeve. The fortunate thing is all the places I fish...that is not a concern. Pretty darn lucky huh?

Thanks...

Gemrod
come fish with me...I will prove it to you

[pomperaugian]

Pomper... I must disagree witih you though. Without the shorb's loop...and just tieing something into the furled leader tippet end...you are halving the strength of the knot...because you did not double over the loop...
Gemrod

Gemrod

I have tested the strength of my UNI thread furled leaders with Shorb loops. My method was to test the leaders against progressively larger sections of tippet, which was attached to the leader with loop to loop. When the leader broke, the point of failure was always at the integral loop, where it attached to the standing part of the leader to form the Shorb loop. From this result, I have perhaps leaped to the conclusion that the Shorb loop does not add significant strength to the connection. If we test against the loop to loop connection of tippet to the integral leader loop, we can find the truth.