Old hook sizes

[jmeyerc]

Can anyone give me a conversion list of the old hook sizing to todays hook sizes please? I have some old books with some fantastic patterns but all the hook sizing is in the old standard.

They start at size 1, 2, 3, etc... down to a 0000. Any help would be appreciated thanks.........

Jeanne

[sagefisher]

Jmeyerc,

I did a little searching and found out that maybe one of the reasons you can?t easily find a chart of the old sizes to the modern day sizes is that there used to be up to five hook scale systems. That would have been very confusing.

I sent you a PM about this.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

We use the "old" scale when we talk about size 10, 12, etc, where bigger numbers means a smaller hook. The "new scale" never really caught on, but came out in the 1800s. Donald has a lot more information on this.

Anyway, the conversion is subtract the new scale version from 15, and that's the old "hook size". I.e. a new size 1 is an old size 14, and we're old!

For the multiple zeros, i.e. 0, 00, etc, add to 15 one less then the number of zeros. A 0 is 0, a 00 is +1 (one extra zero), 000 is +2, and so on. So, a 00 is a size 16 hook.

- Jeff

[Mike-Connor]

Can anyone give me a conversion list of the old hook sizing to todays hook sizes please? I have some old books with some fantastic patterns but all the hook sizing is in the old standard.

They start at size 1, 2, 3, etc... down to a 0000. Any help would be appreciated thanks.........

Jeanne

http://flytyingforum.com/mike/Flies/...oks/hooks.html

TL
MC

[Normand]

http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/hook_scales.htm

[Donald Nicolson]

You should find this useful -
http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page2.html

This chart covers the most common variations
but the older the recipe and the more obscure the hook
manufacturer the more difficult it is to find an equivalent.
If you wanr a fishing fly, just use the neatrst modern equivalent,
you can waste a lot of time in obscure details if you are not careful.

[Normand]

but how do the numbers in the "scales" translate into todays sizing of hooks?

[Mike-Connor]

In the scales that Donald gave, the modern hook sizes, ( Redditch Old Scale) are in the top row, the old sizes which correspond are in the columns below.

In the scales that you gave from "fly-fishing history", the Redditch Old scale, which is the scale used today, corresponds to the columns above and below it.

In the scales that I gave, you only need to look at the pictures, the sizes are marked on the hooks.

In practice, you only usually need two scales. Redditch old, ( the current scale in general use) and Redditch "new", which is no longer in use, but was widely used at the time many of these patterns were invented.

The other scales, especially specific maker?s scales like Adlington, are unreliable at best. Apart from which, you have to know which scale is being used before you can convert.

Over 80% ...90% of the spiders ( soft hackles), and other wet flies for trout were dressed on short shank hooks from 16...14 in modern sizes. about 75% in size 14. It is unusual to find older artificial flies outside this size range. Not least because there were no hooks smaller than a 17 anyway, and dressers avoided small hooks generally as they were extremely unreliable.

Larger hooks tended to be very rank in the wire ( wire too thick), and this made them heavy, so these were also avoided.

One may also check the natural flies which these patterns were designed to imitate, and one then knows the actual size the artificial should be. Many of these problems only arise because people dress from books, instead of looking at insects.

Even modern scales differ very widely. Size 14 hooks from various manufacturers will be completely different from each other, and this without even taking things like Long Shank, short shank, bend, gape etc etc , into consideration. The natural flies however, are still the same sizes they always were.

Furthermore, the size of an artificial is dependent on a number of things apart from hook size, such as style, type, and dressing. One may dress a size 16 fly on a size 12 hook.

One should not confuse the sizes of natural flies with the sizes of hook one uses to dress the artificials on.

All this confusion arises because of the human drive to standardise things. It would be much simpler if people simply said this fly has a body which is 12mm ( or approx 1/2") long.

Due to the fact that many of these artificial flies are now completely divorced from their origins, and used as "attractors" etc, it is well nigh impossible to give a size for them anyway.

If you want to match the hatch, then you need to dress the flies in the appropriate sizes for that hatch. If you don?t want to match the hatch, then it doesn?t make much difference what size you make them, or on what size hook they may once have been dressed.


TL
MC

[Bamboozle]

It would be much simpler if people simply said this fly has a body which is 12mm ( or approx 1/2") long.

Absolutely!

For as many years as I have been fly fishing I have always carried a small 6" flexible stainless steel pocket scale (ruler) in my vest and kept an identical one at my fly tying desk. This particular ruler is available at many hardware stores, has both metric & English markings, a rounded end and a pocket clip.

When I capture a natural insect I want to imitate, I measure it and write down the body length in millimeters. When I get to the tying bench, I compare the field measurement with the hook shank lengths of the hooks I want to use and the size ends up being which ever one has the right length shank. I do have a chart with my hook preferences and their respective hook shank lengths but I usually end up using the ruler anyway to compare sizes.

Obviously when tying attractors or tying non-fishing flies I just pick a hook size that suits my fancy.

[jmeyerc]

Thanks so much for all your help guys, I found it all good advice and also the hook sizes given were great, and the PM was also a great help Larry ----- sagefisher thank you.

Thanks again
Jeanne