Why brim swat surface flies?

[Eight Thumbs]

I think we are dealing with apples, oranges, and bananas here. So far, I think that we have been talking about three distinct activities.

First, we have the normal sucking strike that we all like because we get a high percentage of hook ups. The brim floats up slowly underneath the fly, inspects the fly, flares it gills and sucks in the bug. The major motive for this behavior is eating.

The second behavior is what Bill Knepp described where the fly come at the fly like a Bat out of the warm place. The fish wants the meal but the reckless speed and the wall of water he's pushing often results in a miss. Major motive here is hunger and competition.

The third behavior is what I was asking about which includes tail swatting the fly and rolling the whole body of the fly. Both of these behavior are clearing intended to sink or disable the fly. These behaviors are usually very controlled and often result after a careful inspection. The tail slap and the roll over are not the Bat Out of Hell Charge. They are usually carefully performed and controlled. The effect is clearly intended to knock the fly down and as Ed points out makes it available to the smaller brim. Major motives here seems to be anger/frustration at the fly probably from one of three reasons. The fish is not hungry. The fish is hunger but wants something else. The fly doesn't look quite right and represents a threat.

We've had really good, thoughtful responses to this question. Thanks to all who have responded. Keep the responses coming. 8T

[Extremely Low Budget FF]

During a gypsy moth infestation a few years back, I collected a mess of them to feed to bluegills. The caterpillars would float on the surface and wiggle. The gills would grab them and pull them down about six inches below the surface and let them go. They would then back off and then charge the catterpillar and "inhale" them. What they were doing was lining them up to swallow them the long way.

If I am missing surface hits, I will change my tactics and not even try to set the hook until the second tug!

Now, there is also the nest guarding behavior where the Bull gill is not feeding but attacks anything in its nest zone. They are protecting their seed and will push flies away.

Ed

[drolfson]

The more you guys go on and on here, the more I wonder what is wrong with me. I don't seem to remember these actions too much. Of course, I usually am using nymphs when I am fishing for these guys anyway. Then again, when I DO use topwater flies, I usually use a trout fly instead of a popper or foam fly with lots of legs. The only time I do that is when I throw on a foam spider or a gurgle pop.

Am I doing it wrong? I don't seem to get my fly 'slapped' that I remember.

[jeffnles1]

Am I doing it wrong? I don't seem to get my fly 'slapped' that I remember.

If you're catching fish, I think you're probably doing it right.

I've had the tail slap from time to time but never really thought much about it. Sometimes it seems like the fish is either just playing or actually making fun of me. Then I remember a fish has an IQ of about 3 so such thoughts go out the window.

I've enjoyed the thread.

Jeff

[racine]

Could this behaviour be seasonal? I know in the summer, I'll get 3-4 strikes to one take/hook but in the fall/spring/winter that ratio is closer to 1:1 or 2:1 just like yesterday. I'm fishing an attractor in near downpour conditions thinking it would never work but I got 5 hookups and releases. The only guarantee for a miss is slack line. Either way I've never seen a bream "swat flies" with their tail but then again I've never been close enough to see it either.
Racine

[Doublewide]

To quote from the Tennessee Sport Fish Identification Pocket Guide;

"The taste buds on fish are not restricted to the mouth only, but are also found on the lips, barbels, fins and the snout."

"Smell plays an important role for fish to locate food, to migrate, and for social interaction and is developed to a higher degree than land animals. Fish use nares, which are located between the mouth and eyes and contain olfactory organs, to smell"

Could it be that these fish are just checking these flys out? My experience is that when bluegills are rolling on the fly that it is not just the occasional fish but most of the fish behave in the same manner. Other days it seems like they will inhale a cigarette filter with no hesitation. Go figure.

[Eight Thumbs]

Racine,

I think that you may be on to something. Most of my tail swatting seems to have occurred in the late spring and early summer. Food is easy to find. The fish are well feed and can afford to be a lot more selective. 8T

[WarrenP]

Doublewide,

Welcome to FAOL. Great to see a post from you. Don't be a stranger here. See you on Feb.21st at the Lynchburg Fly Fishing Club meeting.

[drolfson]

Could it be that these fish are just checking these flys out? My experience is that when bluegills are rolling on the fly that it is not just the occasional fish but most of the fish behave in the same manner. Other days it seems like they will inhale a cigarette filter with no hesitation. Go figure.

This very well could be a reason. I know that when I fish over lunch, if I grab a burger and eat it on the way to the pond, I very seldom have those greasy flies refused. But if I fish first and get a burger afterward, there are more refusals.

Gould it be that Gills like Fries as well as I do?!?!?!?!?

[OldBaldGuy]

This very well could be a reason. I know that when I fish over lunch, if I grab a burger and eat it on the way to the pond, I very seldom have those greasy flies refused. But if I fish first and get a burger afterward, there are more refusals.
Gould it be that Gills like Fries as well as I do?!?!?!?!?

I smell a new FOTW...the low-budget "WouldYouLikeFriesWithThat" Fly.

I think Doublewide is on the right track, but then again I'm often outsmarted by a creature with an IQ of 3...