knotted or knotless?

[TomTrout]

This is my kind of Question.
I use all types of leaders depending on species and conditions. Each type has it's place and each has a downside.
In weedy places especially Bass ponds I like knotless leaders. Your casting straight most of the times so presentation isn't much of a problem but you don't have all those knots picking up debris.The down side is that a knotless leader is 1 extruded piece of the same material you have no variables ie stiff butt soft tip except when you add tippet.
For stream and river fishing I like knotted leaders that I tie myself. I like stiffer material for the butts(Mason or Maxima) and softer in the mid and tip sections ( Orvis Super Strong) for better mending and softer presetation of the fly, ala George Harvey and Joe Humphries. Since the mid section of these leaders are mostly 10 inch lengths it makes adjusting leaders to daily condition changes easy. Also instead of using strike indicators I paint each knot of my leader with first white then fl. orange nail polish. Helps me locate even small dry flies. When you can't see the fly you can at least connect the dots. No messing up your casting and no one can accuse you of using a bobber. George Harvey leaders are not the best for me on windy days.
For 1-3 wt lines I prefer braided leaders I just love the way they turnover and present a fly. Especially in low clear water conditions. I know they spray water on false cast but your not supposed to false cast over fish.

I have a few Furled leaders both mono and thread. But I can't comment on them to much yet, still experimenting. Only thing I will say is the one I have designed for heavy lines is bulky and very stiff. Wondering I have an old, level, silk line on hand. Can I make a furled butt, using silk, long enough to actually give the line some sort of taper?

Someone mentioned braided loops. I use them but opposite from stated. I use the braided loops on my lighter lines and use a permanant 12-15 inch butt of mono nail knotted to the line with a perfection loop to the leader on the heavier lines. In almost 20 years of using them I've only had 2 braided loops fail. One where the drop of crazy glue that was used made the line brittle at that spot and break and one where the loop itself failed, both times on snags. I remember the line had a Kevlar core but can't remember the brand it was many years ago. The Kevlar core made the normal nail knot unuseable you had to use the braided butt with this line or a very bulky knot the line Co. devised.

Sorry this got so long winded but hope it helps someone,
Tom

[James Ryncarz Jr.]

Use knotted it's the best because if you need a special leader you get what you want.



-James Ryncarz Jr. Junior Member

[DG]

James, I use knotless tapered leaders, because they are cheap and easy to use, and they work just fine. I have tied my own, back in the day when knotless was hard to get, but I have better things to do with my time than tie a whole lot of knots. That being said, I end up tying on my own tippet, and occasionally find myself in posession of a slowly-made-in-the-field knotted leader as I fixed wind knots, abraded pieces, etc.

I don't know about the lines in the water thing, but I have spent time taking algae or other vegetation off of knots in the leader.

As for the loops, I think they work fine on heavier lines, but I would rather not have them on, say, 4 wt and lighter lines.

DG

[Marco]

Knotted leaders is/are the ONLY part of my fly fishing that could be called classic. The rest of it defies description.

Mark

[hutjensmpg]

I like to make my own. With smaller dry flies I think the store bought tapered work just fine. With larger dries I like to make my own because you can vary the transitions to get a better turnover, especially in a breeze. For deep nymphing (with shot or heavy nymphs) or streams I use only ones I tie. You can get a much better kick over on a tuck cast with these and the knots give convenient locations for the split shot.

This is a cool spreadsheet with tons of leader formulas.

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/

[dudley]

I been tying up my own leaders for over 20 years.
I think that by doing so you gain an understanding about why different tapers are important at different times. This doesn't happen with packaged leaders.
The advantage of a well constructed George Harvey leader probably would not occur to someone who doesn't give as much thought to leader construction.
I tie up a lot of different leaders for trout. Different diameters, different lengths, soft, hard, built in droppers, fluorescent fabric paint indicators.
I tie up a few different lengths and diameters for the salt... stuff I'm sure you can't buy. And a properly constructed bass bug leader is a breeze to cast.
Tying up your own can only increase your knowledge of the sport.
What wrong with that?

[GRN]

There is no doubt in my mind that home grown knotted leaders offer very technical anglers an opportunity to fine tune presentation control for different situations. I have played with it, by no means suggesting I have any mastery of it, and was amazed what a difference it could make. That said, given my tendency towards obsessive compulsive behavior when engaging in more technical endeavors, I concluded I would have A LOT more free time to board hop and make fun of myself if I just left it alone . Let's see, for 3-6 wt I fish 10 different lines, on 8 rods. On most of those I'll fish wet and dry... and of course always have to have a back up.... just trying to guess at how many different leaders I would be inclined to tie up, in duplicate, and then file in my tiny little chest pack makes my head hurt . Things like this are what got me to abandon vests for small chest packs... give me 27 pockets and I'll show you a drowning vicitim in the making!

TL's~

[gadabout]

I use some of both. I tend to go with the knotless ones mostly. This is because in a lot of places I fish, there is a good chance of getting caught in trees and streamside brush. With a knotted leader, the chance of getting your leader and fly back intact is a lot less then with a knotless one. I hate the fact that knotless leaders are selling for around four bucks now. That's just wrong!

[Fly Goddess]

Like everyone else, I like home made because you can make tapers from HECK!
I use furled when I am dry flying cause they lay it down so delicate, use knotted for wet flies and nymphing if I am not using an indicator.
If I intend on using an indicator, then it is the store bought knot-less.

[JeffHamm]

Hi,
I tie my own, and I use the loop to loop connection on the fly line. For the one line I have that didn't have a loop attached, I nail knotted some 12 lbs mono to it and put a loop in that.

I used to have a few tapered leaders, but I would just destroy them in some major tangles when learning to fish with three wet flies. I must say, there's nothing like multiple flies to create a heroic mess of a line. Replacing these became expensive, and buying spools of 12, 10, 8, 5, and 3 lbs mono to create my own leaders was more cost effective. I don't have a formula worked out though. Some of the rivers I fish, the 3lbs section woudl be too weak, as would the 5lbs section in other areas. So, buy tying up my own leaders I can work out what I need for the specific water I'm going to fish.

I'm sure you could do all the above with the tapered leaders (bought) and with furled leaders, but this is how I do it!

I tend to have a couple leaders tied up, one for 3 flies, one for 2, and a one for a single fly. The loop to loop connection makes it quick and easy to switch rigs.

- Jeff