Newbie Question: Breathable Waders?

[DruLeeParsec]

What exactly is meant by the term "Breathable Waders"? I've seen waders made of neoprene, Apparently these are warm and waterproof, but not "breathable". It looks like "breathable" really means "non-insulated". Is that right? I see that in general they're cheaper than "regular" waders so that might make sense.

I guess I'm confused on how "breathable" and "waterproof" can be properties of the same wader.

Meanwhile, in my search for waders I'm tending towards either [url=http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/vertical-pod3.jsp?id=0011367&navCount=1&parentId=cat350005& masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=MainCatcat20431-cat350005_TGP&parentType=index&indexId=cat350005&r id=:1b099]this set from Cabelas[/url:1b099]
with [url=http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0011351810636a&navCount=6&podId=001135 1&parentId=cat20616&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&c mCat=MainCatcat20431-cat20616_TGP&catalogCode=IH&rid=&parentType=index& indexId=cat20616&hasJS=true:1b099]these wading boots[/url:1b099]
OR [url=http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=97E6news&dir_id=1137&grou p_id=1157&cat_id=12021&subcat_id=12022&feature_id= 16:1b099]this set from Orvis[/url:1b099] looks good. I did read good things about the Orvis waders here on FAOL.

In our rivers here in Northern California I can almost wade in in shorts and Teva sandels. It's still too cold to be in the water for very long though. If the waders are non insulated I could always wear wool socks and fleece pants. Or am I being penny wise and pound foolish by looking at cheaper breathable waders?

OK, now for an even more newbie question. I see that wading boots have either lug soles or felt bottoms. I understand that the felt bottoms are suppose to make your footing under water less slippery. But I'm guessing that you don't hike the trail to the river with felt bottom soles. So do you hike in with one pair of boots or shoes and then change into the felt soles (which would make sense) but then you'd have to wade in the river with a pair of boots over your shoulder OR do you set up a mini base camp where you can leave your boots, or backpack or such? That seems a bit awkward, I'd like to be more self-contained. Right now I just put on my vest, put a water bottle in the pocket of my cargo pants and carry my rod in my hand. I can go anywhere that I can fish from the bank.

But I've seen guys hiking out from the river without backpacks or a 2nd pair of boots but still wearing waders. They're "self-contained". I'm guessing that they're all using lug sole boots.

I think I really need to just find a fly fishing buddy who knows all this stuff and just go fishing with him.

Thanks for putting up with my silly questions.

[Jayatwork]

Waterproof breathable waders are made from Goretex or some other similar modern waterproff breathable material. As I understand it they are pourous materials. The size of the pores is small enough to prevent water molocules from entering but large enough to allow water vapor to escape. In any case they work great.

Felt soles offer better footing on most stream beds. The ones in your link look like they would be light enough to carry on a hike but would not offer much support. There are always tradeoffs.

Good luck.

[Jed]

Read your post but could not find any silly questions you were referencing. Breathable waders are waders that allow moisture to pass through but not water. They are not insulated. The advantage is that they are not as hot in the summer. I wear them all year round, adding thicker pants, fleece pants or both when its really cold. In the summer I wear very thin pants underneath them to get the cooling effect of the water temps.

As for price, cheap is good, but you get what you pay for. I just bought a backup pair of waders from LL Bean's "Flyweight Stockingfoot II"
http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... ch&feat=sr
They are $59.00 and guaranteed for life. They are not as durable as others but they will be cooler than most on those hot summer days.

As for boots. Felt are great for those slippery rocks. They don't do well as hiking soles. Rubber is mediocre in the water but the aqua stealth soles are suppossed to be a great combination of good footing in the water and durable for hiking. If you are thinking of long hikes in then pack in your waders and boots. Who wants to spend a long time on a hot day encased in a plastic suit with uncomfortable shoes. A small backpack is a better alternative. Aqua stealth does cost a bit more than felts.

Hope this helps. If you need more information, post again and I or someone else will give a response.

jed

[DruLeeParsec]

Read your post but could not find any silly questions you were referencing.

Well, thank you, you're being very kind There are times when I think "This should be obvious", but since I've never done it, I don't know.

OK, that clears up my question. It sounds like the breathable waders are probably OK for what I need them for. If the river is really cold then I'll go ahead and wear some fleece.

I can now see that it's a trade off between lug or felt soles. I'd sure like the extra safety of felt soles when I'm in the water. But I also want proper foot and ankle support when I hike in. The places I've fished so far have all required a half mile walk at a bare minimum. I know that even that walk would be uncomfortable for me with soft soled shoes. But with hiking boots I can go for miles.

Who wants to spend a long time on a hot day encased in a plastic suit with uncomfortable shoes. A small backpack is a better alternative.

Ya know, that's starting to make a lot of sense. And as long as I'm carrying a small day pack I mights as well toss in a couple extra bottles of water.

And maybe a sandwich.

And perhaps a beer.

And probably a pipe and some black cherry Cavendish tobacco.

Dang! Now I'm camping again.

Seriously, thank you for your quick response and informative answers. I really appreciate the kindness I've received at FAOL.

[Gramps]

There's an answer to the boot problem. One boot. Many soles that exchange.

http://www.korkers.com/

[SilverMallard]

Now that you've got the breathable waders and felt vs. lug thing down, what most of us do is buy a good quality pair of wading boots that are built like waterproof hiking boots, but have felt soles stitched and/or glued to the bottoms of the rubber sole. The real advantages and disadvantages of lug vs. felt are as follows:

Lug soles = better traction in mud, snow, and sand. Very durable. Very poor traction on wet rocks.

Felt soles = better traction by FAR on wet or slippery rocks, but far worse on slick mud. They wear out pretty fast (say 100 days of fishing).

Generally, you just scrape the old sole off, sand the rubber sole down to remove the glue and felt remnants and rough up the rubber surface, and then glue new replacement felt on there. It's a 24 hour drying/curing time sort of operation if done right. If you don't do it right, they tend to fall off pretty fast.

Korkers are great, but a bit pricey. And you still have to carry the various soles with you if you want the full advantage. Korker replacement soles are also expensive.

I have found a wading boot that I am really in love with for hike-in fishing applications and general purpose use. They are the lightest full-featured wading boot I've ever hefted. That's important. But they are also rugged and durable. They offer excellent support and protection. But they are not insulated and provide no warmth. That's what socks and toe warmers are for. They have a combo sole that has a lugged rubber toe and heel cap and about 80% felt in between. The traction on various surfaces you get with this combo is impressive. And the boots cost less than a new pair of Nike sneakers. I think they're about $75. They are the WilliamJoseph W2O Wading Boots.

As for the waders, I gotta tell you I have spent 2 decades researching and scouring the world for breathable waders that are under $120 AND durable enough not to be a total rip-off. They simply don't exist. To get good breathable waders, you've got to spend (ballpark MSRP) $140 or more. In general, I think $180-220 is the mandatory range for REAL quality. And the famous "$300 waders" actually ARE that much better than the rest when you're talking Simms G4s and WJ Drynamics and such. Dan Bailey waders are good waders in the $200 price range. Orvis makes a few good models in that same price range, except theirs runs like $150-250. Stay away from Hodgman. The Cabelas Dry Plus Warrior Waders are pretty good for the price ($200).

But if you are hiking in 1/2 mi or more to fish and you spend less than say $150 on waders and another $50-100 on boots, expect to replace them often, be very uncomfortable most of the time, and be generally dissatisfied with waders.

[Gringo]

Your'e getting some good advice again... just from my experience, I have had felts and now have Simms Aquastealth.

Felt is great, and better than aquastealth in the stream. I am told it is slippery in mud on the trail but to be honest I have never ever slipped in mud or clay or grass with felts on, taking a bit of care. Aquastealth is good on the trail in, but don't be deterred by felts either. Buy the best boots you can, because by teh time I have thrown away three pairs of cheapies I could have had my Simms Aquastealths and would havbe been cheaper in the long run.

For the distances you are talking to hike in, your waders and boots will be fine. Even if it is warm and you elect to carry your waders in you could wear some neoprene booties so that your wading boots fit.

Quality breathable waders fit nice and feel nicer than cheap ones, all the material arguments aside.

As for all the gear, yeah that is the problem why vests end up weighing a ton.

[fcch]

My 2?

We use felt soles for the wet traction on rocks. All our boots have studded soles (either built in by the manufacturer or home made with sheet metal screws).

Helps A LOT on muddy trails and when you step on a wet log or exposed tree root.

A disadvantage to studded soles is if you use boats often. The boat owner probably won't like you sctratching up the decking.

As Gringo mentionned, get the best fitting solid boots you can find. Aching feet is a sure fire way to cut a day short on the river.

[DruLeeParsec]

You folks have given me a lot to think about. I'm going to have a little windfall next month of about $320 and that's pretty much my budget for waders and boots. After reading the advice and thinking about where I like to fish I'm pretty darn tempted to get the AquaSteath boots with cleats and the Orvis Clearwater Endura waders. I think I'm going to head down the hill to Sacramento to see if Fly Fishing Specialties has them in stock. I'd sure like to be able to try them on to see how they fit (especially the boots). I'd also like to support my local fly shop provided it's not too pricey. If it cost me an extra $80 or so to buy locally then I may have to go with the online store.

[Gringo]

You won't be sorry. This will be a long term investment and save you unnecessary expenditure in the end. Enjoy!