length of flyline from tip top vs length of leader and tippet

[freddyg]

I am reading J. Gierach's book "Fishing Small Streams". I am having a hard time trying to understand the amount of fly line to cast a certain length tippet. If I have only a foot of fly line out I can cast a very short leader, but I am very close to my fishing spot. With 6-10 ft of fly line I can cast a longer leader but have a hard time getting the fly to place because of all the low limbs etc. Having trouble with the casts and drifts thanks freddyg
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[fishin' fool]

When I fish on small streams I use the same 9' leader I use on bigger streams. I just never tried a shorter leader, but it works for me so that's what I do. As far as the length of the line outside the rod tip, it all depends. I generally put out enough to do the job. If there is no room for a backcast I employ the bow and arrow cast.

[Big Bad Wulff]

Sounds like you are reading a book written by someone that reads books and doesn't actually .............FISH.

I have a sister that has become somewhat of an ornithologist(bird watcher). She writes me and tells me that the behavior of a peregrine falcons she has been following and observing for about 10 years is nothing like what is written in the books she reads about them.

I'm a believer in DOING and not reading(except for 'the basics').

With that said I was fishing the other night for bluegill and crappie. It was late and about to get dark so instead of adding tippet to the very short leader I had left after the last time I fished, I tied a fly to the rather thick leader section that was left on the now about 4-5 ft of leader.
I caught fish 'hand over fist'......about 40 blue gill and 20 crappie(including a 14" crappie) in about 1.5 hours.


We were told in Optometry school(or tested over and over) how to diagnose and treat bacterial conjunctivitis like we'd see it every week. Well, in 20+ years of practice I have NEVER seen one case of true bacterial conjunctivitis!

Believe what you SEE and DO and forget these "experts" that write books.

[JohnScott]

freddyg -

I suggest that you try furled leaders. Go to the "Search" function above, type in "furled leaders" and search for all threads.

When you get through enough information from the previous discussions of furled leaders to decide if you want to try them, let us know. Odds are that at least one BB member will send one along for a trial.

John

[clarkman23]

two words: furled leader.

[fritz]

use whatever length you are capable of handling under the situations you encounter. I don't even subscribe to the "leader to fly size" rule. Otherwise I'd be spending my time changing tippets for BH's, weighted nyphms, drys, streamers, etc. Just have fun doing it!

[Bamboozle]

Freddy:

It sounds like your problem is more related to drifts & obstructions, rather than a magic formula of line length versus leader length. As you have already discovered, the more fly line you have past your tip top, the longer leader you can cast which is due to the mass of the line among other factors. However, regardless of line, leader or tippet length; obstructions, presentation and drifts can be a problem. Here's what works for me:

• First, see if you can present a fly properly at a given distance on open water. If you can but the low limbs give you problems, work on things like side arm or other ''trick" casts that help you avoid obstructions.

• Some folks don't put the same amount of energy or shorten their stroke on casts when they see a potential snag staring them in the face. They compromise what they would normally do on open water to compensate for the obstruction. One solution that often works for me is to make sure you can make the cast in the first place by trying a few presentations at the same distance using the same casting technique, AWAY from the snags. After you feel confident, make your presentation to the area with the low limbs.

• Sometimes the ONLY answer to obstructions is to sneak up as close as you can and make a short presentation. BTW-in those cases a shorter leader will help since your cast is shorter. I use leaders as short as 5 feet on really tight streams and have no problems catching fish.

• If you are having trouble getting the leader to STRAIGHTEN out at a given distance, the first thing I would look at is the size and length of your tippet. I don't subscribe to magic formulas but I find that 3-4X works with just about any fly size except the biggest and the smallest. Many folks use too light a tippet for the fly they are throwing. While I use a lot of 7X-8X where I fish, I'm not using it with #14 beadhead nymphs or size 12 hoppers.

• If you are using 3X or 4x and you still have a problem, possibly your tippet is too long. Again no magic formulas but I can usually get away with a 24" tippet with any size fly although I normally like one about 36".

• If your tippet isn't too light or too long, possibly your overall leader is too long. Even though I routinely use leaders as long as 18 feet, it's more about me forgetting to cut away excess tippet material than a need for a super long leader. I really think that 7-9 feet cuts it in all but the tightest quarters so use that as a starting point. Coincidentally, when ever I have leader straightening issues it's usually because I've allowed my leader to get too long.

• If your biggest problem ISN'T with obstructions but drift, that's a whole other problem. The simplest thing to try if possible is to just move slightly and make subtle adjustments to the cast to try and get a different drift. I have cast to a particular fish 20-30 times moving a few inches at a time and making subtle adjustments until I get a good enough drift to induce a strike. If you move slowly and cautiously, the fish will hardly notice. Sometimes after you move it's just about waiting a bit until the fish calm down.

These are the cures that work for me and are simplest to check and adjust. I wish it was as simple as I am trying to make it sound, but unfortunately there are other things that can give you leader headaches like casting issues. If all else fails, give your rig with the problematic leader, fly and tippet to a friend and see how they fare. If the problems persists it may be the tackle; if the problems go away it might be your casting which I'll leave to the experts.

Have fun figuring it out!

[freddyg]

Gentlemen thank you for the information. I know each of you has put a great deal of thought and energy into you replies. It will take me a while to digest this info and to learn about furled leaders and try all the suggestions you have recommended. I plan on giving your suggestions my full attention--which they certainly deserve. Thank you so much ! freddyg

[CoachBob]

Don't forget that a small rod can make a big difference. I fished a small stream in Arkansas with a 6ft 3wt and could roll with no problem. I frequently use 7 and 7.5 foot rods under the cypress trees with sidearm casts.

I am a heretic when it comes to leaders. If I am fishing a small stream and need 3 feet of 6x for the drift, I might tie 3.5 feet onto a heavy butt section creating a 6.5 foot leader that casts well enough for the intended purpose.

[Ronnie Z]

IF the leader is balanced right you should have no problem casting it no matter how long it is.