American 'Education'

[Big Bad Wulff]

As a business owner I can tell you that Americans going thru our public school system are not getting an education. It is PITIFUL!
They surely know there is this thing called "global warming" and can tell what what supposedly causes it but they can't figure out simple percentages.

Which of the two items above makes you more valuable to your employer?

Next................

[Grn Mt Man]

BBW,

You are so correct. Electricity went out in a restaurant a while back and it took them FORTY-FIVE minutes to cipher up the bill for six of us. Sad commentary on the times.

[MikieFinn]

This was on the local radio. A large international corporation hires about 50 high sdchool graduates every year for entry level positions. They "filter" candidates using a very simple apttitude test to access candidates basic skills in math, english and science. The questions on the test did not changed in fourty years. Every year about 100 high school graduates allpy and take the test. 40 years ago company would accept 50 candidates with top scores since 95 % of kids would pass. Since early 90tie the company never filled their quota because less than 50% would pass. The number is dropping every year...

But then waht can you expect. Schools keep lowering requirements to allow studens to get better grades. There are many reasons. One of them it makes school look better... It's just too bad that it the same does not apply to real life. It got so bad that my department only uses "consultants to fill any open position. Contract is for 3 months. If the "consultant" meets our expectations he or she will be offered full time position if not: "next please". We have very few positions opening every year - but we go thrugh a lot of people. There are some jobs that after three years we still have consultans filling them.

[hungNtree]

BBW is right. At my job the salesman wait on the customers and one woman is the cashier. (that way only one is responsible for the money) The last time we had to hire a cashier the only thing the boss would ask is if they could count back change. Most of them didn't even know what that meant and couldn't figure without a calculator. I have worked there 8 years and I can already tell that it is getting harder and harder to find someone that can simply make change. It is pitiful.

[Greybeard]

What's wrong with America? There's no doubt plenty that's both right and wrong but you hit a hot button with me - it's folks that find time to complain ineffectively. I think that's a major issue in America and it doesn't seem to matter whether you're left or right of center.

I don't know for certain if you're right or wrong about the educational system BBW. My wife is a fourth grade teacher and I hear plenty and my opinion is the truth about the education system is far more complex than you imagine. However, it seems pointless to complain here - if you're serious, get on the local school board, talk with your state legislators, make a difference.

In short, my respectful request is to talk fly fishing here and if you have other issues that's great. Research the issue and figure out a strategy to express your complaints in a manner where they'll be effective. Truly I mean this respectfully.

Greybeard

[DG]

I suppose that depends on who the employer is. Knowing in your head what 18% of $19.79 is and not paying attention to the world at large doesn't gain you a lot either, except you might know how long you have. If the former is all you have at the end of high school, you might as well not have gone. If the former is all you have at the end of first grade, there is still hope. Learning WHAT isn't as useful as learning HOW, and even less so than learning WHY. In addition, the amount of WHAT out there is orders of magnitude more than what we knew when we were kids. Knowledge accumulates, and the world we live in today is a lot more complicated than the one I grew up in, and certainly more than what my parents and grandparents faced. Kids these days will live in a world few of us can even begin to comprehend, and knowing how to make change is the least of their worries.

I went through the public education system in a couple different states quite a few years back. I firmly believe that my knowedge base, and my ability to learn, were not as a result of having gone through that process, but it spite of it. I slept through most of it, sometimes literally. I learned how to read without school, how to understand mathematics, and most of everything else, without the teachers or the system contributing much. I certainly did not learn English in public school. The best thing the teachers ever did for me was to realize I didn't need the cookie cutter approach and cut me loose to work at my own pace, and few of them were able to do that.

Then I went to college. I learned some things, mostly about girls and beer. I got a degree, 98% of which is no longer inside my head somewhere. I went back to school, got part of another degree, and then left and went back to work. I went back a third time, got another degree (the all-important paper), and ended up here. But 95% of what I need to know in my job did not come from school of any sort. It came from experience and paying attention to the world, and on the job training.

But, you know, my parents expected things of me, and I do not see that as much these days. They helped me gain a love of reading, and everything else followed from that. They had standards that I had to meet, of accomplishment, of behavior, and so on. Where is that? Back then, if you wanted to know something, it took effort to figure it out. But now we have instant gratification, with information available without hard work (I see that even here, where people expect to shortcut the years of experience that many of us have, so that they can catch fish immediately upon taking up the sport), and people consider it a RIGHT that things should be given to them.

We had to use our minds even to have fun. We didn't have XBOX and cell phones and all that. The worlds we played in were created in our own minds, and imagination counted for something. Now it is video games and realistic toys and so on.

The teachers are sorely constrained in what they can do these days. No child left behind means that no one can move ahead, either, and who knows what we stifle with the cookie-cutter approaches we use these days. Basing funding on standardized tests? All that does is lead schools to teach what the test asks.

[BobC]

It is a shame. A number of years ago I found an article on the internet that featured a series of questions from the early 1900s on things you needed to know to graduate from 8th grade. I believe the test was given to students in Kansas. Geography, calculating simple interest, math and english skills. I don't think a lot of HS graduates today could pass the test. 8th grade was the end of the formal education line back in those days, but those kids had a pretty good framework to work with to continue their self education.

[Marco]

Unfortunately, a big part of the problem lies with parents who practice "catch and release" with kids. A parents participation/interest in their childs education is VITAL. Few kids make it without that. If parents participated, teachers/teaching would get better.


Mark

[rainbowchaser]

Math isn't considered necessry any more. At my last job we had hourly heat readings to take and average along with computing the standard variation. I did mine as I went along for the first couple of days and handed the completed sheet to the boss at the start of the period set aside for doing numbers. He came to me and said that they couldn't be right becuse he noticed that I never even took out a piece of paper much less a calculator. I told him the numbers were right so he got a calculator and checked them that day and several days running before he believed it could be done. The next time the calculator batteries died in mid-shift I spent an hour doing the whole plant. In my current job I once said I could compute a missing dimension on a blueprint only to learn that not one of our engineering staff had a set of trigonemetric tables in their office. The computers do all of that stuff they said....except of course when they don't.

[Steve Molcsan]

I'm MAD... How about you?

Lets hear about it, I know many that are also out Mad
many right here on this site starting with our wonderful hosts.

I could easily make a list and I am proud of every one of you here and
out in my everyday world! Wait FAOL is my everyday world

The youth of today Rocks! With a bit of guidance from my lists ( mentioned above) they will not fail..

Example - Start a community garden and share it.. Build a flag pole and share it.. Take lunch to your hungry neighbor
and make sure a young person helps..
Spread kindness...
It not only makes a difference it make the difference!

I absolutely guarantee it...

Ok, so what makes you Mad? Lets spread and share your madness...

Steve