Knots and your preferences

[NJTroutbum]

I have run through the gamut over the years on knots within my rigs, and what seems like coming full-circle in the end. I probably use a rig most of the time that is a bit unorthodox compared to mainstream. Nothing scientific involved here. Just my experiences. Curious if I am alone or knot (couldn't help it).

First, I avoid the bloodknot like the plague. Yes, I know how to tie it. But it has failed me on large fish more times than any other knot at the leader-to-tippet junction. And the surgeons knot has failed too often to use at the tippet.

My leaders are always loop-to-loop at the fly line. Either a furled loop....or...a simple overhand loop tied as small as I can get it. It has NEVER failed (knock on wood). Despite the tests I have read about.

My leaders are micro-ring or micro-swivel on my tippet junction if furled, which is most often. if not, I use again...a simple overhand knot looped as short as possible.

My tippet is an improved clinch to the ring or swivel....or an overhand loop once again.

At the fly...improved clinch....100%

Recently I was told I was nuts for using overhand loops by a knowledgeable friend. And had I just begun, I would accept it. However, they don't break. They cast very well, and I can tie them in the dark by feel if need be. As a note, I fish flourocarbon tippet nearly 100% and never larger than 3X, except for warmwater, I use Orvis AR tippet in 8-10 & 12#.


Thoughts? Not by any way saying I am right and anybody else is wrong. But for discussions sake....

[Rick Z]

I use loop to loop for everything but the knot for the fly. I am with you on other knots failing, maybe because I don't do them well enough.
Improved chinch knot for flies. It has worked for me.

Rick

[Jayatwork]

Based on my personal preference, experience and habit, here is what I use.

Backing to line: nail knot
Line (without loop) to 1 foot butt section: nail knot
Butt section to leader: blood knot
Line (with loop) to leader: Perfection loop to line loop
Leader to tippet: Surgeon's knot
Tippet to fly: improved or unimproved clinch or non-slip loop. It might just be me, but in flourocarbon, I have been having better luck with the unimproved clinch. I use the loop for streamers.

I use several different loops. The perfection loop is quick an easy but not so strong. I use it for the butt end of leader, since it's not the weakest point. When I tie a fly to the loop I use the non-slip mono loop. When I want a strong loop, I use a figure-8 loop or a king sling.

[dudley]

backing to line: Bimini twist to whipped loop
line to leader: whipped loop to perfection loop
hand knotted leaders: blood knots
leader to tippet: perfection loop to surgeon’s loop
tippet to fly: non-slip loop or regular ol' (unimproved) clinch

[DaleW]

Think I fit into that category of fly fishers who have over a period of years tried different methods of line to leader attachment, and a host of different knots for anything I can think of for a fly rod/fishing set-up. After years of experimentation, trial and error, I've settled in for what works and fits my doings and needs best, especially in the field.

I'm a loop to looper for the fly line to the leader. What works satisfactory and the simplest for a line loop for me, is to tie a perfection loop (makes a smaller knot then a overhand loop) at the fly line end, and then cover the knot with a short piece of electrical heat shrink tubing (maybe 1/4" long), gently and carefully heat it over a 60wt bulb so it shrinks dcown nice and tight. So far, no damage to the fly line that I can see, but to make sure the line's coating was not effected, i use some silicone line dressing on the connection afterward. Makes for a tight loop that glides through the rod line guides without hanging up. The heat shrink tubing I use is 3/32" dia and has a 50% O.D. shrink.

For the leader connection, I use the standard overhand loop knot, and tie on the tippet with the old standby double surgeon's knot. For tying on a fly my most often used knot is the straight clinch knot. I know how to tie it right, in all kinds of conditions, and it works.

[johnstoeckel]

I tend to think the best knots are those that I can consistently tie well, so I tend to stick with the knots and system that I have experience with.

I use a whipped loop in the end of my fly line, a perfection loop in my leader butt and loop-to-loop connection of leader to line. Blood knots in the butt and taper section of leaders. Triple surgeons' knot or tippet ring with improved clinch knots in the tippet sections. Improved clinch knot to attach flies to tippet.

I don't use overhand knots (except for the occassional accidentaly knot). However, I've heard they are not as bad / weak as we sometimes think.

There's some good, objective info at https://www.yellowstoneangler.com/ge...r-stoft-umpqua.

[Silver Creek]

The weakest knot is the one that fails. And the weakest knot is the one tied using the thinnest weakest material. Therefore, the weakest connection is either the leader to tippet knot or the tippet to fly knot.

So if an overhand knot is weak relative to other knots BUT it is tied as an overhand loop to connect the leader butt to the fly line loop, it will be stronger than a better knot at the tippet to fly. The fact that an overhand knot has not failed in this situation does not mean it is a relatively strong knot! It just means that a relatively weak knot tied in strong material will not break before a relatively strong knot tied in weak material.

Secondly, the fact that a strong knot like a blood knot at the tippet to leader connection fails before another knot does not mean the blood knot is a bad knot . It means EITHER the knot was poorly tied or the blood knot was tied with the weakest material (the tippet) in the connection system. The same holds true for the tippet to fly knot. It is critical to use the best knot we can tie and tie them properly in these two connections. For that reason, I either use a blood knot or a double surgeons knot for the tippet to leader connection and I use the Orvis knot at the tippet to fly connection.

The reason for the Orvis knot at the tippet to fly vs the clinch knot is that the Orvis fly knot wastes the least amount of tippet material. I can tie it and have less than an inch of tippet end to cut off. A strong knot with little wasted material is a hard combination to beat. It saves me tippet material and that keeps my tippet from getting too short.

I know the illustration of the Orvis knot looks complex, BUT the knot can be tightened by pulling only on the standing (long) end of the tippet. If you you keep the tag end just short enough so you can still pull on it to set the knot, that is all the tippet that you will need to cut off.

I totally agree with John that the most important thing is that we tie the knot consistently well. It think a well tied "weaker" knot is stronger than a poorly tied "theoretically stronger" knot.

[Prairieschooner]

I know that traditionally I should learn to tie all those knots. But...I'm lazy, so tradition aside I use loop-to-loop whenever possible, nail knot on backing to line if I have to, Orvis knot for tippet to leader (however I must admit I typically just keep trimming the leader until it gets too short and then replace it ) and Davy knot for leader to fly. Lately I've been tying the double Davy even though I've had a very few slip.

[okflyfisher]

Trout Rig
Albright Knot Backing to fly line
Needle Knot Fly line to 6 inches of 20 lb amnesia with a small perfection loop in the end .. this slips through the tip top and guides very easily
loop to loop Amnesia to furled leader
Davy knot tippet ring to tippet ... it is a very strong small knot and i like the way it seats on the tippet ring
Eugene bend tippet to fly... This knot is very fast strong and easy to tie with forceps and ties up with a small tag to trim
Seaguar knot If i add finer tippet or want to extend my tippet ...very strong and fast can be spun with finger or forceps
For heavier outfits i use factory fly line loops or nail knotted fly line loop instead of a needle knot because they are stronger and i use shorter leaders on these rigs that won't be going in and out of the tip top.

I have tried a lot of knots through the years there are lots of really strong knots. After i switched over tying the tippet to tippet and tippet to fly knots with forceps i have never looked back. they save me time on the water especially if it is cold or rainy or poor light

[johnstoeckel]

Silver makes a simple, but great point. A weak knot (say 70%) in heavy (say 10#) material is going to be stronger than a great knot (say 100%) in light (say 5#) material. focusing on knots in the weaker material like tippet and tippet to fly knots is what's really important.

This is one of the things I like about tippet rings. Surgeon's knots are generally considered to be a little weak (I've heard 80%) and they seemed to be the most frequent point of failure for me. Tippet rings have allowed me to replace the surgeon's knots with a tippet ring and a couple improved clinch knots for a stronger system with the same tippet material.