Neil:
Excellent article! We have lost our connection with nature and the natural world. On the other hand technology is something we (the less skilled and uninitiated) need in order to survive in this now unfamiliar world. We would freeze without polyester and never get back without GPS. As for the genteel, I'm not so sure that is a "class" of people as much as people with "class". We all bitterly complain about the abusers. They are no ladies or gentlemen.
I didn't miss the point of the article....I agree with the article. I was just adding another prespective in support.
Admittedly I'm not in alignment 100% with Mr. McGuane. I agree that there are elements on the extreme that are as he states, seen them, but I am not so sure that it is the main problem within the sports identity. I feel the true loss of identity is in the fact that too many are detached from the natural world "except" for the fact that they fly fish.
Likewise, I have to admit, that if this were still a sport only of the "Tweed set"....I most likely would not be associated with it. My corporate attire doesn't even include a tie, and if it's not made in denim, or come in a "hoodie" or ballcap....I probably don't own it. LOL While I have enjoyed a lifelong love for the outdoors and the places that trout inhabit....I am far from "Genteel". And the closest I get to tweed....is an affinity for Guiness.
Last edited by NJTroutbum; 01-17-2012 at 11:40 AM.
Sometimes, it pays to read the posts and details of where the poster lives, etc. when trying to comprehend their reply. Dunfly lives in a gulf coast town in FL known for it's excellent middle-class, small town lifestyle. But most coastal towns in FL see their fair share of ostentatious displays of wealth, European and Latin American style class-consciousness, etc. For example, I was standing outside Cracker Barrel a few nights ago near Ocala waiting for the 3 ladies I was traveling with to exit and checking directions on my smart phone when this British lady got out of a high-end SUV driven by a man about my age and asked if I worked for CB. I obviously didn't, but just said no almost without making eye contact. Then she returned and asked if she could pay me to load two rocking chairs she had just bought into her SUV. In winter in FL, this sort of stuff is common. Here I am, a fellow tourist traveling and shopping/eating at CB and she has to insult me by trying to hire me as day labor because she can tell I'm an American.
You don't get a lot of that in MT or the desert SW. I've spent time in both places. In fact, I've never found anywhere else in the USA where working and middle class Americans can expect to be treated like crap on their own turf by tourists like they can in FL in Jan-Feb. when the Europeans, Canadians, and rich Yankees are in town. So Dunfly may have just been sensitive to the particular word choices that - to him - sounded classist. I can tell you that this is a bigger deal to fly anglers in FL, GA, SC than it is in the rest of the country. As a sub-culture, they work hard to be accepted as fishermen with no distinction from conventional tackle and bait fishermen. It's different here.
FG,
I was just in Savannah for the first time a few weeks ago. What a beautiful town. And full of some lovely, friendly people. It has to be a nice place to live.
All,
I went back and read Neil's article again. I am from the same waters that JC and LF started out in. Neil too, I think. I have never met any fly fisherman on any of those rivers I would take exception to. I guess I am just lucky because I know they are there somewhere. I did run into a rather obnoxious drop back fisherman in a boat on the Manistee. And one steelhead guide (out of dozens) I didn't like. But that is not what we are really talking about, is it?
The real trout fishermen of old are farm boys with cane poles. They probably didn't like the guy with the funny looking rod and reel in waders fishing their turf either. Point being, we don't own the stream. People are what people are and it changes with time and equipment. We can't make time go back no matter how we lament it. Might as well scream at the darkness.
There is no law that we have to buy graphite because it is there. We can still use waxed cotton instead of gortex. We don't have to use breathable waders. We don't have to use air cell plastic flylines. We can still buy single malt scotch. Cuban cigares are a problem though.
Relax. There is always room for someone who doesn't fish the way you think it should be done. As long as he doesn't break the law or intentionally violate your space, let him have his due.
Godspeed,
Bob
Bob,
I think that's an excellent point. I wish I encountered more people like this on the saltwater, but I don't. Amazingly, with far more water to fish, jet ski, sail, putter around in power boats, etc., they somehow seem attracted to the notion of invading each other's space, engaging in reckless conduct, and exhibiting the most unsportsmanlike behavior imaginable. I am not exaggerating when I say fishermen mourn the deaths of friends almost every year who were killed when some other fishing boat "buzzed" them, ran over them at anchor/wading/in a kayak, or because jet skiers collided with them.
I've been out on weekdays when there was not another boat on the horizon for many miles and then I've heard the feint, broken drone of a jet ski in the distance growing louder for several minutes as the idiot made a bee-line across miles of water to get to where I and a friend were fishing so he could cut donuts around the boat and the little spoil island where we were fishing. In similar situations, I've had motor boats pull up next to us and beach on a spoil island while we were fishing the shallows around one, get out to drop a couple of beach chairs and do some sunbathing. There are countless similar spoil islands all over the place within minutes of each other. Most never have anyone on them. A few days ago, I was wade fishing a shallow grass flat the last 30 minutes before sunset alone in a secluded cove of a state park I had paid to enter. A guy in a runabout with a girl on board puts in not 30 ft from me and drops anchor, laughs and says to his girl, "Well, now that we scared all the fish he'll be leaving." They proceed to break out some wine and snacks to watch the sunset as a reel up and walk off. These are mild accounts!
This is the reality of fly fishing in salt water when you just want to fish for a few hours close to home...so to speak. You learn to live with it. Of course, you can get away from the crowds for the more serious adventures. That's why this sort of stuff doesn't (or shouldn't) happen during guided trips. But I learned my lesson last year about not carrying a concealed weapon on the water. That's how bad it actually does get when you're fishing near enough to the ramp to get in and out in a few hours or doing some walk-in fishing at a park.
Have we "lost our way?" You bet! But don't blame the Internet or graphite fly rods and PVC coated fly lines. We've lost our way as an entire society.
Last edited by flyguy66; 01-17-2012 at 07:09 PM.
I second, or third or fourth that comment as well. "We've lost our way as an entire society." I didn't ever expect it see it in my lifetime. Surprise!!
FG,Originally Posted by flyguy66
My heart goes out to you. It is a shame that there are people like that out there. I consider myself fortunate not to have run into very many of them. I fish salt too. Not where you are but in other places. Maybe I am a romantic but I continue to have faith in human beings. I will cling to the notion that for every a h out there there are hundreds of good people - maybe even thousands. I hope you won't let your sample embitter you to that notion.
But we did get off topic, didn't we? We were talking about the influence of technology on our sport. I would like to focus on a technology that has added greatly to fly fishing. That being the forum that JC and LF were so kind to put together for us. The one we are using right now. It is, no less, an example of technology no different in concept from graphite rods and weight forward lines. When we want to damn technology, we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I think, like your human fishing partners, you can pick and choose those technologies you consider beneficial to your situation and be mindful that others will have an entire different set of rules, no better or lesser than our own.
Godspeed,
Bob
There are still may good people in Fly Fishing, but over the years their numbers have deminished...
Now most of the Fly Shops us fly anglers use to visit and purchase fly fishing gear, materials, and got good advise on our purchases have disappeared.... sign of the economy?
Just like everything else that was once made in the U.S.A., now it is built overseas....
Even the fly shops that still exist, no longer stock all the stuff we use to buy. They are holding on by their finger-nails...
Yes there are slob fly anglers, that go out and fish and fish some more...thinking that they are not hurting the level of fish in our waters by catching and releasing a 100 fish in one day on the water...
Then there are others who keep everything they catch to help feed their families through these hard times in America.
I speak the truth....I alway have....and I do not apologize for speaking the truth! ~Parnelli
"Everyone you meet in life, give you happiness! Some by their arrival, others by their departure!" ~Parnelli
Problems are out there....fortunately from my experiences they are not the norm. Most of the outdoorsman I meet, from hunters to warmwater gear fishermen,the hautiest of fly fishermenand all points in between, seem to be great people. Much better in my opinion than the same cross-section of the non-sportsmen oriented public.
I don' tlike crowds....so I avoid opening days. And I tend to try to fish "select" days during off hours to avoid them as well as much as possible. Because I know that if I fished opening day and only Saturday mornings....I would find far too much frustration. But that goes for crowds in general I think?
As a a flyfisherman I think you have to acknowledge up front, that there will always be the extreme end of the sport that includes the folks that hold themselves as part of "society"....and by being a "flyfisherman" they somehow place themselves in a station above the general "fisherman". They will never go away. So to fight it or chafe against it will only lead to a ruining of the sport for yourself. Likewise, you will have the rebels as in any pastime. Who fly fish but do it in an almost mocking state. But in between you have alot of great sportsmen IMO.
Nowadays.....when I great a fellow fly fisherman, and their first action is to look my floatant-stained waders up-and-down, then eye-up my rod and reel combo before even making eye contact in greeting.....I laugh. Sometimes out loud.
I agree completely about crowds, however if it weren't for Saturday mornings I wouldn't have much opportunity to fish.
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