Montana Felt Sole Ban proposition

[ScottP]

I wear the Simms Guide boots with the Streamtread sole, without cleats. 60 + days on the water last year and no mishaps. I like them a lot. They have traction, grip on moss-covered rocks and do the job for me. They are more comfortable to walk in and in the winter they don't build up a dangerous mound of snow on the sole as felts do. I'm not here to argue with anyone, but I'm an advocate for the new rubber soles, they have won me over by their performance on the water.

Kelly.

Kelly,

If you can get around okay below Palisades Dam with them, I'd say that's a pretty good measure. I may still opt for the studs though; one reconstructive knee surgery (ACL) is more than enough for me.

Regards,
Scott

[John Rhoades]

John,

Just curious where you used your drift boat in YNP; I'm assuming either Yellowstone or Lewis Lake? Must be a booger to move in it when the wind kicks up.

Regards,
Scott

We've used it in Lewis Lake going to the Lewis/Shoshone channel. I have a 6hp Mercury motor for the boat, which moves the boat - slooowly - but I'm retired and have lots of time! I haven't been out on the lake when the wind REALLY kicks up, but I probably ought to have provisions along for spending the night somewhere on the shore if that happens. Or, plan on hiking out with those rubber soled Simms boots - they're good for that!

[ScottP]

We've used it in Lewis Lake going to the Lewis/Shoshone channel. I have a 6hp Mercury motor for the boat, which moves the boat - slooowly - but I'm retired and have lots of time! I haven't been out on the lake when the wind REALLY kicks up, but I probably ought to have provisions along for spending the night somewhere on the shore if that happens. Or, plan on hiking out with those rubber soled Simms boots - they're good for that!

John,

I've done that hike; caught one middling brown and a decent mack, spent most of the transit time yelling "whoa bear!" every 20 seconds. A boat, even a slow one, would have been nice (lol).

Regards,
Scott

[ScottP]

There must be someone on FAOL that has tried rubber soles on Rock Creek near Missoula. How about a report.

That would be the test for me personally. There are sections of Rock Creek that are just vicious.

Amen to that; skating on those rocks has made my orthopedic surgeon a very rich man. It was always #1 in my book until I fished the Big Hole up by Dewey; for me, that place makes Rock Creek feel like I'm walking on pavement.

Regards,
Scott

[Silver Creek]

There must be someone on FAOL that has tried rubber soles on Rock Creek near Missoula. How about a report.

That would be the test for me personally. There are sections of Rock Creek that are just vicious.

Having said that, here is the latest review of rubber soled boots that I could find. If there is a later review or others that are valuable, please post the link.

http://troutunderground.com/2010/04/...g-conclusions/

I guess I'll have to switch to rubber soles in Montana eventually. I'm going to wait for the next round of rubber soles though. They seem to be making incremental improvements. If I were to buy a pair right now I think I'd go with the Orvis. Tom Rosenbauer is absolutely correct in that stud placement is critical. I confirmed that during my days as a boot tester for Weinbrenner.

Tom Rosenbauer, in one of his podcasts, talked about rubber soled wading boots. He said that, at this time, they do not equal felt regardless of claims by some manufacturers that they do. He also said that Orvis decided not to sell rubber soled boots without studs for safety reasons. Indeed, all Orvis rubber soled boots are studded.

My view is that there must be a reason Orvis doesn't do that. To the lawyers among us, is there an implied suitability of products that they are suitable for the purpose for which they are sold? I believe Orvis does not think plain rubber soled wading boots are suitable for their implied purpose of wading and to sell them without studs may present a legal liability.

[JohnScott]

There must be someone on FAOL that has tried rubber soles on Rock Creek near Missoula. How about a report.....

.... Silver.

I've wade fished several sections of Rock Creek totalling probably four miles of streambed with rubber soles. Yes, it is a tough stream to wade, and yes, it can be done safely with rubber soles, and without a wading staff, which I don't have.

I've used the stock Korkers ( older version ) unstudded rubber soles with waders and the Simms wading sandal rubber soles ( not the Vibram streamtread ) for wet wading. The Simms wading sandal soles perform better than the Korkers.

I've also used felt, and will add that it is better than the rubber soles. And behind that, I will add a personal opinion that being fit, observant, and careful are more important than the kind of sole you have on your wading sandals / shoes / boots.

Also, I've waded on the Lochsa, which I think is more treacherous than Rock Creek, with rubber soled wet wading sandals and wading boots without incident.

John

P.S. For all the wading I've done with either felt or rubber soled footware, I've only gotten wet a few times and never had an injury. I've had a number of injuries streamside where rubber is generally the sole of choice.

[Mike Thomas]

Here in NZ the ban on felt soles is into it's second season. It is however not against the law to move a kayak or raft full of water from one river to the next!
I can tell you that in 10 years of fishing the Tongariro with Felt soled boots I fell in twice, both times tripping rather than slipping. Since I changed to rubber soles I fall in at Least once on every trip!, The vibram soles simply do not have the same grip as felt on slippery, bouldery bottoms like that found on the Tongariro, They have proved fine for me on gravel and O.K, but not as good as felt, on bedrock.
All the best.
Mike

[John Rhoades]

In fairness, I've found that Simms rubber soled boots WITH studs are not bad for wading, and they do an acceptable job on some easy wading, mostly small gravel bottom streams, like the West Branch of the Delaware River in the East, and portions of the Henry's Fork and the Missouri in the west.

However, it doesn't matter how fit, observant or careful you are, you simply can not wade and/or wade safely with them without spikes in them in rivers like the Yellowstone (downriver from the Park where I spend the summer). And, I don't consider the Yellowstone to be an especially difficult river to wade, but it has many large and smooth rocks that are virtually impossible to stand on with rubber soles alone.

[Dave E]

The vibram soles simply do not have the same grip as felt on slippery, bouldery bottoms like that found on the Tongariro, They have proved fine for me on gravel and O.K, but not as good as felt, on bedrock.
All the best.
Mike

Mike, I've found almost the exact same results here.

Although this isn't my first go round with rubber soles. I have an older pair of boots with studded ( carbide tip ) Aquastealths. While they have their weaknesses, they are in my opinion better than the new boot / sole combo even with the addition of studs.

So rather than just chucking them out or dumping them on eBay.
I've found an environmentally friendly - green way to get some use out of my new boots.
　
　
Thats $200 and some change gone to seed.
　

[Mike Thomas]

Mike, I've found almost the exact same results here on the west slope of the Sierra and in the Valley below it.

Although this isn't my first go round with rubber soles. I have an older pair of boots with studded ( carbide tip ) Aquastealths. While they have their weaknesses, they are in my opinion better than the new boot / sole combo even with the addition of studs.

So rather than just chucking them out or dumping them on eBay.
I've found an environmentally friendly - green way to get some use out of my new boots.
　
　
Thats $200 and some change gone to seed.
　

Man that is funny!!
All the best.
Mike