... I'll second that thought.Originally Posted by pszy22
John
For sure ...
... I'll second that thought.
John
The fish are always right.
Thanks guys.
I know I at least have some options.
As for the type of fishing I'm planning this rod for, it will be for nymphing in rivers with heavily weighted flies with and without an indicator. The chance of me actually putting a dry fly on such a set up is statistically nil. Although I may use it for some smallmouth bass poppers in lakes (I've located a population of smaller smallmouth bass that would be within reach from shore and tons of fun on such a rig).
The allure of this type of rod for me is the reach, control, and the simplicity. That's why I'm thinking a longer 'pole' rather than the pure Tenkara rod might work better for me.
I realize what I'm looking to do is not 'Tenkara' in it's pure form. What I tried last summer worked, the rod was just to darn heavy.
Thanks again.
Buddy
It Just Doesn't Matter....
Buddy
With TenkaraUSA's medium and slower action rods, the 12' Iwana and the 13' Ayu, I have fished smaller nymphs several times with and without an indicator or trailing a dry fly. Those rods handle small nymphs like size 14 and 16 bh pheasant tails and the smallest thingamabobber just fine.
With the Iwana, I also fished a fairly heavy nymph - about a size 12 with a huge bh - with no indicator a couple times and had no problems.
With the Iwana, I fished a heavily weighted ( 25 wraps of .025 non lead wire ) size 6 4XL stonefly nymph - ONCE. That rig worked, in that I caught a very nice cuttbow with it, but it was not really castable. The cast, more of a big slow lob, was more laughable than anything. I got the fly in the water, but accuracy was clearly lacking. Considering I was using a thread furled line / leader and 5X tippet, it wasn't all that bad.
I didn't nymph with TenkaraUSA's faster action Yamame the one day that I tried it. But it does seem to me that that rod, with a beefier line / leader and larger tippet, would most likely cast / fish that big stonefly nymph reasonably well. The problem would be with the heavier tippet - if you hung up on something and had to pull free without being able to actually pull on the line rather than the rod, you would possibly break the tip of the rod.
If we have some open water around here the next few days, I'll try to get the Yamame for a day and see how it does with that big stonefly nymph fished off TenkaraUSA's furled line and maybe a floating ( 5 wt running ) line with heavier tippet, likely a 3X fluoro with a very short piece of 5X tippet to protect the rod.
John
The fish are always right.
Senior Member & Sponsor
John,
The tip of the Yamame is still pretty soft. If I was planning on fishing a heavily weighted nymph, my tenkara rod of choice would be the Backpacking Light Hane, which is noticeable stiffer than even the Yamame.
Buddy,
Given what you want to do, a non-tenkara pole might actually be the best choice.
Tenkara Bum
For nymphs I am very pleased with my 11ft Iwana. It is very easy to work the nymph triggering strikes. To me the 13ft Ayu is a little soft for big nymphs but works great with drys and wets.
The Iwana although stiffer than the Ayu it is very sensitive.
Hmmmmmm ......
Chris -
I do believe that I can get a Yamame to demo in the next couple days, weather / water / fishing conditions permitting. This is more an experiment for Buddy's information than for my own longer range plans. The places I usually fish these big stonefly nymphs are more suited to conventional fly rods than Tenkara rods due to the size, current, and depth of the water.
Of course, if the rig I have in mind really works well, maybe I will need to add a Yamame to my collection.
John
The fish are always right.
John,
Just a thought/suggestion, rod choice aside, you may want to try a fairly light level line. At some point on the curve, the weight of the fly is going to provide more than enough mass to load the rod. Same concept when fishing "chuck and duck", the line just goes along for the ride being propelled by the mass of the weighted fly.
I also agree with Chris that there may be some better suited "fixed-length-line" set ups for what Buddy has in mind. I don't have any specific suggestions that I can provide from personal experience. It just seem in general the conversation is analogous to discussing wanting to fish large weighted flies with a 00 wt fly rod. It probably can be done, but a more practical solution is to use a rod designed for casting a heavier line weight. I think rods specifically designed and labeled for Tenkara are on the light/ultra light side of the fixed-length-line rod spectrum.
When I read Buddy's first few points, my initial reaction was to suggest taking a look at some of the telescopic rods sold on Ebay. They are NOT tenkara rods, but they provide length Buddy wants, for about $15-$20. I don't know how well they will hold up, but the investment would be minimal. If someone decided to go that way, I'd suggest going with a level line and see how that casts with a heavy nymph. Again if nothing else it might prove or disprove the feasibility of the type of fishing Buddy wants to pursue.
"People tend to get the politicians and the fishing tackle they deserve" -
John Gierach, Fishing Bamboo
http://www.tenkaraflyfish.blogspot.com/
Alternative lines and rods/poles
Buddy,
I have done some pretty extensive research on alternatives to traditional tenkara rods and lines. I have other rod poles including 12', 15', and 21' Heras from allfishingbuy as well as another of their 12' carbon poles plus two of their Wakata tenkara rods. First of all, any of the rods/poles there can be fished like any other tenkara rod as long as the line is suitable and lines are the big variables in any tenkara fishing situations. I have tried multiple line configurations on all my rods/poles. Essentially, you need to decide on a rod/ pole that is within your budget, then a length suitable to your most common desired fishing scenario, then the size fly(s) you plan to cast, and lastly a suitable line configuration. For example, one of my saltwater combos is a 15' Hera paired up with an 20' section of 8wt line, a 2' extension of hand twisted 0X 8lb Maxima ending in a two strand perfection loop to which I attach a 10lb Maxima tippet of about 3 to 5'. I then attach a size 2 to 1/0 Clouser to this to fish off the beach under a bridge for stripers and bluefish. To test this combo for strength I took a 5lb dumbbell out into my grassy yard and attached the tippet. I was able to lift this enough to drag it without over bending and over stressing the rod so I know I should be able to land some pretty big fish as long as I net or beach them without actually lifting them completely out of the water.The 15' rod/pole is light enough to cast with one arm but better with two and spey casts are easy. My 12' Hera with a similar setup can drag a 3lb dumbbell and the attached pic is me with a 22" puppy drum (red fish) caught on a 1/8oz hand tied chartreuse marabou jig landed with ease with this rod/pole:
Last edited by Varden; 12-01-2010 at 10:11 PM.
By the way, Igor at allfishing buy told me he is going to possibly offer non traditional tenkara rods with cork handles using the Hera style blanks for saltwater applications based upon my success using these rods for stripers, bluefish, redfish, speckled sea trout, flounder, etc. in my monthly trips to Virginia Beach to see my folks. Occasionally visit his site for updates. Also, his running lines for his tenkara rods are a great alternative to the lighter furled and level lines traditionally used in tenkara applications. If you prefer the up or down and across traditional wet fly swing, fish into the wind, or like to use heavier weighted beadheads and streamers, then these lines are for you. I personally carry a wallet with multiple line configurations no matter which rod(s) I use. They are easy enough to change up on stream. Sometimes I might fish a small brushy creek in the AM for wild brookies with a traditional size 14 sakasa kebari, a larger stretch of river in the PM with a small streamer or two tandem beadhead nymphs, and then a local bass pond in the evening with rubber legged foam spiders for bass and bigger bluegill. This can all be done with one rod and line but is better suited for change-ups.
Randy
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