Flies that spin

[Andrew]

I noticed this past season that I had a single Prince Nymph that was more effective than others of the same size. I happened to watch it float past me and it was slowly spinning; its white wings would periodically flash. I am sure it was the additional movement that made this particular fly more effective.

I remembered that I once had a rubber legged popper whose legs would get all twisted when I cast it. It would then 'unravel' causing the popper to spin on the water. The panfish and bass loved (hated?) that popper.

I've been trying to duplicate the Prince Nymph but most simply don't spin like my 'original'. I don't really even know where to start.

Is there anything anyone knows that will consistantly add movement to a nymph?

Thank you,
Andrew

[Mike-Connor]

Is there anything anyone knows that will consistantly add movement to a nymph?

Thank you,
Andrew

There are a number of ways to accomplish spinning flies, but most results are obtained at the cost of making the flies difficult to fish, and of twisting and damaging tippet.

If you want, I can put together some options for you, but I stress that I would not use such options myself, as I consider them disadvantageous.

TL
MC

[TxEngr]

I agree with Mike that you don't really want to design a fly that spins. As anyone who has cast a dry fly with hackle that causes the fly to spin when casting knows, it's a real pain to untangle the leader and it weakens the leader as well. My first experience with this was a Royal Coachman that was extremely frustrating and resulted in cutting off the leader since the knot was unmanageable.

That said, try tying the nymph on with a loop type knot like a Duncan Loop. This will allow the nymph to have more action in the water since it is not tightly attached to the leader and can move around on the loop. This has the additional advantage of acting as a shock relief on quick takes.

TxEngr

[Eight Thumbs]

Flies that spin can make an absolutely awful mess of your leader, particularly if you are fishing multiple flies. All you need is one "spinner" in the group and all your flies join together in an unhappy marriage of steel, feathers and leader material. Old-style, duck-wing wet flies have always been the worst offender for me. Strangely enough I've also had a similar problem with pheasant-tail nymphs. This worst part is that I know I'm to blame for the problem because I've tied something off center or out of balance. 8T

[MR.JML]

You do not want your flies (nymphs or wets) to spin !!! As everyone before me has said in a nice way, it is counter-productive. The materials you use in creating lifelike movement are more important; ie. rabbit, maribou, Ostriche (especially gills), Organza (the best material in my opinion for gills); pheasant for legs (Veli Auti) , or rubber legs.
How do each of these materials act in slow water, or how do they act in fast water ???
When you consider this approach, you will design patterns that are 100% more effective and consistently trigger strikes !!!!!

[sagefisher]

Andrew,

Jumping on the bandwagon, I have to agree, spinning flies make a mess of the tippet and leader and possibly even the line.

Norm Norlander, in his DVD demonstrating his Nor-Vise, mentions that flies like Woolly Buggers can have a tendency to spin so he starts his hackle at the front of the fly, palmers it back to the rear then back up to the front again. He says this makes it so the hackle will not spin your fly. I have started doing all my hackles this way on the sub-surface flies.

Here is a link to his You Tube site where he is talking about the hackle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13Ff73vSB0&feature=related

There are some streamers that wreck havoc on my leaders and lines when I am casting for smallmouth bass or out in the saltwater for pinks or Searun Cutthroats. I have been tempted to tie in a very small barrel swivel between the leader and the line. I have yet to do the swivel but I suspect it would take care of the tangles.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[dudley]

One of Gary LaFontaine's flies, the Rollover Scud, was designed to 'fall' hook side up.
When the angler started the retrieve, the fly would flip over.

Gary was a big believer in 'triggers'. Something that would cause a fish to attack a fly.
A fly like this would be best for for sight fishing, as the fly needs to flip at the right moment to trigger the attack of an already interested fish

The rollover scud is tied with a piece of lead lashed to the top of the hook shank as opposed to the bottom like many other weighted flies.
There's no reason other flies couldn't be tied this way.
But like I said, this is a fly for a special application

[Buddy Sanders]

Many, many years ago, there was a fellow named John Hicklin in Huntsville Alabama that marketed a line of bluegill and bass 'bugs' that were designed to twist a leader.

They were made from cork, and had two opposite angled slots on either side that had small 'wings' of thin plastic glued into them. They had a couple of hackle tips and a sparsely wound hackle for a tail.

You were instructed in the little sheet that came with them to use a single 3-4' piece of 8 pound monofilament as leader with these.

As you backcast and false cast the fly, they would spin and 'wind up' the leader. Once the bug landed on the water, it would rotate in place, unwinding the leader.

A bit quirky to fish with, you needed to replace the leader every couple of hours, and every ten casts or so it would help to let the thing completely unwind....

Fantastic bait. I caugth lots of big 'gills and some surprising bass on them in the lakes around Huntsville, plus the San Diego city lakes in southern California. I used up the 'last one' of these in 1990 after moving to Tucson and discovering a few of them hiding in an old tackle box....


Sad thing is, John offered to give me the rights, plus the tooling and jigs, to produce the things when I just a lad. He had a successful printing business and didn't have the time or energy to make and market these flies.....I was looking in a different direction then, and turned him down. No clue whatever happened to the stuff. I do know that John gave me the last hundred or so that he'd produced, and the few that were left on local tackle shop racks slowly disapeared....probably sat in a box in some storeroom until it all got thrown out....

Missed opportunities.

Buddy

[whatfly]

Andrew:

OK, now that you've been admonished by the crowd, let's try to address the original question. The Prince is going to tumble in the water column somewhat no matter how it is tied...as any fly would...and the white wing is definitely a strike trigger. How you would impart greater action is a tougher proposition because of the number of different variables involved (e.g. tippet size, amount of weight, water speed, etc.).

If I were going to try for greater action with a Prince, I'd make sure when I tied in the wing that there was enough room at the head so when I tightened down the thread, the wing lifted up above the body in a much more pronouced curve than one typically sees. I guess an even greater way of emphasizing that curve is by tying the wing concave side up (instead of down). Finally, another idea that comes to mind is you could tie one biot concave up and one concave down, in an attempt to create vanes.

I have no idea how well this will work, but I doubt any of the suggested techinques will twist a sufficiently stout leader to cause you too much grief, and it would be fun to experiment regardless. If you are just looking for more action in your fly, you might want to considering tying a rapala knot (aka lefty's loop knot) instead (just google it for examples). Finally, you might want to consider that the one fly that worked best was also the one you had the most confidence in, and therefore fished it the best...just a thought...

[Andrew]

Yes, I do feel duely admonished! I must be heretical wanting my nymphs to spin more in the water! LOL

Thank you all for your replies.

That one Prince nymph was more effective than others that I tried. It was the only one that I could watch slowly spin as it would drift down past me. There was just something about it. I probably should have kept it and tried to disect it but I eventually lost it.

Now I am trying to find a way to duplicate it. This nymph did not twist my leader at all. I never had any problems casting it. (don't think I had it for years or anything. Just a few trips this past season)