Customer always right
But, JC, isn't replacement built into the price? For example, the orvis travel rod is NOT guaranteed, and that's why it is relatively cheap. It's my understanding when you buy a rod today you are actually buying two. So, I'd agree with you IF the rod manufacturers then lowered their price. But I suspect that won't happen.. Just my two cents...
There are rods out there with less than full guarantees, they are offered at a reasonable price (reasonable for one might not be reasonable for another), and give a great alternative to rods that are available with a full guarantee (at a premium).
That we the consumer are at fault for this is wrong, in my opinion. Didn't the rod companies offer the full guarantee in the first place? How is it our fault for taking advantage of these warranties (note I didn't say abuse)? I can't understand why I'm to blame for a rod company offering a very lucrative and popular product (the warranty).
I've sent in a rod that 6" of the tip broke off when it got accidentally slapped on the water. I paid for a product that included the cases where damage to it was repaired regardless of circumstances. In my case, it wasn't defect of workmanship, it was an unfortunate circumstance of life in the flyfishing world... and I don't mind paying a premium to have these circumstances minimized (FWIW, that rod cost me $135).
Using the guarantee/warranty when the breakage isn't the result of workmanship isn't unreasonable.
Really, with all due respect to JC, I think the whole thing started from an entirely different premise. Like with all manufactured products for sale in the United States, the consumer started looking for a way to sort the good from the junk, and a respectable warranty was one major way for manufacturers to distinguish themselves. I think the exact same principle but with varying details has distinguished many companies manufacturing other products.
I also believe that there is an over-generalization at work that most rod breakages are due to improper use. I believe that the personality type that will break a rod from improper use is the same that will raise lots of hell about it to anyone who will listen, creating the impression that only idiots have broken rods.
Finally, the return to values of yesteryear when people stood behind their products without the high prices in today's market will only return when the powers-that-be put the American worker and company first, not every jackleg foreign outfit that turns out widgets for half as much twice as fast.
Just my .02!
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[url=http://www.native-waters.com:c41ad]http://www.native-waters.com[/url:c41ad]
As I remember it, rod warranties started with Orvis offering a 25 year warranty, I believe in the late '70s.
Perhaps they were tring to distinguish themselves as Roger says, but I think that they were just tring to match LL Bean's policy of standing behind eveything they sold.
From Orvis' 25 year warrenty, everything snowballed untill all major rod producers felt that they needed to warranty their rods just to stay compeditive.
The result was the dramatic jump in the price of a fishin' pole.
[This message has been edited by dudley (edited 31 October 2005).]
EDIT: I was way off on my time line here,
the Orvis garrantee started some 10 years later.
[This message has been edited by dudley (edited 01 November 2005).]
[This message has been edited by dudley (edited 01 November 2005).]
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements.
--- Horace Kephart
I'd venture to say it goes back much further than that--didn't premium bamboo rod manufacturers offer two tips with their rods? isn't that, in effect, and undconditional guarantee?
Dave,
This business about warranties was a major topic of discussion at the time. It was hashed and rehashed at clubs and on the water much the same as the the effect of "the movie" some 10-15 years later.
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements.
--- Horace Kephart
still, even though it was called such, wasn't giving you two tips with a bamboo rod saying "if you break the tip, here is a replacement"?
as far as pricing, g. loomis was about the last company to offer the warranty, albeit kicking and screaming. their rod, prior to the warranty, were still quite expensive!
I'm not a bamboo guy, but I believe the two tips were so you could "rest" one so that it wouldn't take a set.
Lke you said, when you buy one rod, you're paying for two. I'd like both of mine at the same time, if it's all the same to the rod company.
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements.
--- Horace Kephart
I think that the first unconditional rod warrenty was on the early Fenwick HMG rods. They were having trouble selling them at the time because they were so much more fragile than either glass or bamboo. Many of us had trouble paying almost a hundred dollars for a rod that was prone to breakage. This was basically a marketing technique and I'm not sure that they made sufficient allowance in the price to cover replacements since they later renigged on it. It did set a precedent for what we expect from a high end rod though.
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all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim
I can think of few acts more selfish than refusing a vaccination.
I treat all my equipment with the same respect regardless of it's price. I think only well made rods, reels or whatever even offer guarantees. I had a Scott rod that a foot and a half long piece of the tip broke clean. I had used it for years. I don't use weighted flies or add weight to my leader.When I sent it to them they just sent it back along with a blank but the bill they sent me for shipping was $40 or 3 times what it cost me to send it to them. It then cost me another $50 to have it wrapped using the guides and tip top off my old rod....So much for a Scott Warrantee. Orvis on the other hand just gave me a new reel when I brought in one that I had put a small dent in the rim of and just wanted to see if they could straightened out.. It was the result of a fall I took on the Ausable and certainly not that of Orvis or the mfg of the reel. I didn't go in looking for a new reel and was quite surprised. Needless to say who my loyalty goes to.
Of course now I fish cane and the makers all gaurantee their rods for 'their' lifetimes or 'mine', whichever is the shortest. lol.
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