Expert fly tyers

[ducksterman]

This could be a sound off topic but it should work here too.

I have watched a lot of experts tie at expos ,etc.....and have wondered...as they tie with one wrap here and two wraps there...or this material here and there...are they really tying flies that will hold up to the rigors of actual fishing?....or are they tying what looks good for demo purposes???

I know some of our gurus are practical but do you think this happens?

[JeremyH]

There are very few materials that cannot be well secured with 2-3 wraps of thread. In fact, I think one of the things that separates a great tyer from an average tier is thread usage. Most tiers I feel use way too much thread in their flies.

Jeremy

[Jim Slattery]

Jeremy is spot on with this one.
If you get the chance to watch a true EXPERT Mary Dette you will see thread wrap economy at it's finest. Same technique that has been used by her family for 9 decades. Dette flies are the paramount of quality and durability. If one of thier flies fell apart when you fished it you would either get your money back or a free replacement fly. Believe me no pro tyer wants customers to come back with complaints...you won't be in business for long.
Jim

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[url=http://www.Jimsflyco.com:05171]www.Jimsflyco.com[/url:05171] [url=http://www.flymph.com:05171]www.flymph.com[/url:05171]

[JeremyH]

I was in a bit of a hurry when I posted earlier, but I wanted to add this.

I used to play a game with myself. Once I got a fly to the point where I felt it was technically acceptable with straight wings, nice hackle, smooth body, etc I would start the game. The game was that each time I tied the fly I had to use less thread than the time before until I got to the point that I felt like I could not possibly tie the pattern with less thread. Try it. You'll see slimmer better looking bodies, nicer heads, and many other benefits right away. It also forces you to pay more attention to the placement of each wrap. This will train you to tie a nice smooth underbody for quill bodies, biot bodies, and things like that.

Jeremy

[bones]

Any kind of hair and most synthetic materials take more than a few turns. They are incorporated in a bunch of patterns. In the classic style of hackle tail, feather wing, hackle collar style the 2-3 wrap is true. Add a bit of hair and things change?.tye salt bugs and things change quick...

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harry mason
[url=http://www.troutflies.com:d06e1]http://www.troutflies.com[/url:d06e1]

[Daniel J]

A really-good/great tyer can tell you what EVERY wrap of thread is there for.


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There is a fine line between fly fishing and standing in a river waving a stick, and YOU SIR have crossed that line!

[fishyfranky]

Squirrel hair, marabou tails, dumbell lead eyes, wire/lace ribbing, etc. all need more than 2 turns to wrap securely.

A lot of natural materials are not durable so the tie on isn't the weak point and there is little need for greater security than a turn or two.

My personal opinion is that a quality, well engineered fly pattern needs to last around 20-30 fish of good size (i.e. 2+lb trout), or 10 steelhead in the 7lb range, etc.

[bones]

I use to think less is more, still do to some extent, but when you tie for others or fly shops bins you want the fly to last. If that requires 3-6 turns, so be it. One of the biggest pratfalls in tying I see today is the idea that the smaller the thread the better. I disagree. I prefer to use the strongest and sometimes the "largest" for the pattern and hook size. This provides me with the ability to tighten every wrap to the max, thus, less turns. Seven turns of 10/0 vs. four of 8/0. I'm not advocating 3/0 on a 22 spinner but, IMO it's a waste of energy to use 10/0 on a size 14 EHC and so on. The 2-3 wrap while sounding "expert" can at times, be a detriment to the tie. So, if you take a fourth or Lord even a fifth turn I won't tell.
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harry mason
[url=http://www.troutflies.com:d98c8]http://www.troutflies.com[/url:d98c8]


[This message has been edited by bones (edited 19 March 2006).]

[bones]

JeremyH
I think a better "game" would be to false cast the fly after each new thread iteration. The one that lasts the longest is the one I would stop at. Then get the bug wet and false cast it, if it holds together it' a keeper. Finely tapered bodies and thin profile are desirable, but to have all that hold together for 10 plus fish is the total goal

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harry mason
[url=http://www.troutflies.com:12d9d]http://www.troutflies.com[/url:12d9d]

I'll only address the 'expert' (in my estimation anyway) fly tyers I have watched. They all used thread with exactness of placement and a minimum number of wraps. Mary Dette, who I've had the pleasure of watching about 4 times, often uses 1 or 2 wraps for each material. Of course, depending on the material, i.e. deer hair, she'll use more. I should also point out that she does not use a bobbin. She prepares an 18 inch piece of thread and applies a special wax to each piece prior to starting to tie the fly. She explained that the wax protects the thread and helps hold the material in place.

Another point that these experts have in common is their knowledge and proper use of thread 'tension'. They may all use threads by different manufacturers, different thicknesses, different properties and different strengths but they all know how to maximize whatever thread they are using.

So yes, they do tie flies with looks in mind, but the flies will hold up because the fly has been tied(built) with techniques that maximize the strengths of the binding material. In the case of the fly, it is the thread.

Allan

[This message has been edited by tyeflies (edited 19 March 2006).]