Why use whip finishers?

[Plain Old Jim]

Thanks all for the info. Can't believe you would go to the trouble to sandpaper your hands to hand whip. Probably not all that bad but sounds .....rough. <grin> I learned to do it by hand.....but I would do it with the Mattarelli if I am going to whip finish. I have read where the Thompson was better for small flies. I didn't find it that hard to do the whip with the Matteralli. I could see where just after doing it a few times it would become a piece of cake. I have noticed all the guys around here....and I think most posts and books I have read.....those who do not like to use the head cement do indeed use the Matteralli. I think I will fire it up and get used to it. Perhaps I can get good enough to not have to use the head cement as well.
Thanks Again and thanks for your opinions. Your opinion I would think would be pretty much the only one that you would be the expert on. Thanks Duckster for the links. A lotta people don't go to the trouble to help others, take the time to type. They just read and absorb what they want. I appreciate those of you who make the effort to help others. Hat's off to all of you.

Gem

[Fly_Line]

If I whip finish I usually don't use head cement except on larger flys.

[Plain Old Jim]

I have to ask. I am such a rookie at fly tying. Still trying to tie a good plain old wooly worm. I see and hear about several different whip finishing tools. I have a Mattarelli only. I learned how to do it by hand. (doesn't work for me, thread keeps hanging up on my skin....it works....but it is not quick and consistent for me because of rough hands), then I learned how to do it with the Mattarelli. Then I set it aside and can't even remember how to do it with the Mattarelli. I would have to research and learn all over again. hmmmmm....guess I didn't need to say so much to explain why I am curious....I shoulda just ask the question. I read a book by a pretty famous fly tyer and he said he finishes his heads with "2" half hitches and head cement. Well, you are already wrapping the head with the bobbin at the end anyway.....you can put on as many wraps as you want with bobbin in hand, so why stop, pick up another tool (whip finisher) and then wrap a bunch more times, then remove tool? I can just do all the wraps I want with the bobbin, give it two quick half hitches, and head cement and done. It SOUNDS more efficient to me. So the question is, is there really a need for the Thompson and Mattarelli whip finishers? Should I be learning them...? Is there something here I don't know about that makes them better?

Gem

[ducksterman]

POJ,

I'll let others answer your real questions...they almost get philosophical...anyway...you might find this site helpful...I might be able to come up with one that has a video stream too...it really helped me with the Mattarelli...remember with the Mattarelli create that triangle...

I know people that use fingernail files to ther hands [fingers] for roughness...lotions...etc.

[url=http://www.warmwaterflyfisher.com/tyingtechniques/Whip_Finish.htm:9c71f]http://www.warmwaterflyfisher.com/tyingtechniques/Whip_Finish.htm[/url:9c71f]

You probably know this one..
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/part5.html:9c71f]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/part5.html[/url:9c71f]

[This message has been edited by ducksterman (edited 23 March 2006).]

Here's the video stuff...
[url=http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/jbwhip/:9c71f]http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/jbwhip/[/url:9c71f]

[This message has been edited by ducksterman (edited 23 March 2006).]

[herefishy]

I like to whip finish by hand, just because I have trouble keeping all my tools in front of me, but I don't like head cement, and I don't know if half hitches without cementing are secure. The other option is to cement your thread as you are tying the head off, then you don't get cement on your finished fly.

[oldfrat]

I think it is opersonal preference. For me, the Matarelli is faster and gives better control of the thread --and I try to avoid head cement.

[This message has been edited by oldfrat (edited 23 March 2006).]

[kjackson]

POJ-- I have the rough hands problem as well, although it does depend upon how much salmon fishing I'm doing.

I've found a cure, although it sounds weird-- take a piece of sandpaper and sand the rough spots on your fingers. I use 180 grit. While the sanding won't cure splits and hangnails, it will take off a lot of the spots that will snag thread (I whip finish by hand) and floss.

I tend to tie larger flies, #12 and above, more than smaller, so it may not work in your situation.

Keith

[Buddy Sanders]

Jim,

It's always best if you can whip finish by hand. Rough hands, odd procedures, or just plain stubornness keeps some of us from doing or learning to do it.

But your question is, really, 'why' whip finish at all, rather than just half hitch?

A whip finish is more secure if you don't want to use any cement.

It is 'easier' or 'more efficient' to whip finish in a smaller area than it is to half hitch. This seems, at least to me, to be most true on standard hackled or parachute hackled dries where you want to avoid trapping any barbs under the tie off. You have more thread placement and/or tension control.

If you are 'really' picky about how the heads of your flies look, a whip finish is 'smoother' (not by much, but it is....). The fish will never care.

A couple of half hitches and some cement, heck, just coating the thread with a CA glue and wrapping it and cutting, is plenty secure for fishing.

I use a tool, since I 'wrap backwards' and never cared to correct this. This makes whip finishing by hand a 'non 0ption' for me. I find it faster than a half hitch, but I do use half hitches for some things, as well as just the glue.

Good Luck!

Buddy

[WarrenP]

Plain Old Jim,

In my opinion there are several answers to your question due to the many different types of flies that are tied and the different fly fishing styles that are out there.

For instance - I fish nymphs, wet flies and streamers 99% of the time with nothing smaller than maybe a #14. I use and recommend using a Mattarelli whip finisher to finish off the flies. I feel that the whip finisher gives you a more durable fly that will last many fish before getting "chewed" up. I also recommend using head cement for the same reason. If you cut a rope into and wanted to finish off the cut end so it would not fray, you would do a whip finish which would hold up more than a couple half hitches. Please remember this is just my opinion.

If you fish a lot of size #18 and smaller dry/wet flies a couple half hitches may work better than a whip finish. I know that the half hitches would probably give you a smaller head on the fly. You would probably not want to use head cement on the really small flies so that you could keep the cement from getting into the dry fly hackle.

To sum up my opinions on this subject:

For my type of fishing and flies, I use the whip finisher with head cement

I think a whip finish is more durable than a couple half hitches

With really small flies, you could probably get by with a couple half hitches and no head cement

I am like you when it comes to doing the hand whip finish. My hands are just too rough due to they are working hands. I learned to do the hand whip finish for those who feel "you are not a fly tyer unless you know how to do a hand whip finish."

I know that someone with more knowledge on fly tying than myself will be able to give you a better answer and maybe make it clearer to understand.

------------------
Warren

[Ed Gallop]

I also whip by hand because I can do a better job and faster than finding and using the tool. However... If someone learned with a tool first they may not want to take time to learn by hand. It is a little more difficult to learn.

I agree there is a need for the tool if you have rough hands because thread will snag and hang up on your fingers. That is frustrating.

I learned to use the tool when my hands were rough but the main reason was to teach others how to use them. I also teach them to whip by hand if they want to learn. Some don't. Many people just prefer the tool.

Half hitches work well if properly done but I prefer the whip. It takes me longer to position half hitches. I simply prefer a couple whips on a fly rather than a series of half hitches, although functionally, it doesn't matter.

I would not finish a fly with only 2 half hitches. I use 2 whips with 5 to 7 turns each. I may not always use cement, but normally do. Never had a fly come loose, cement or not. I just like the feel of it being more secure, needed or not. It takes very little effort and time, so why not?

Some cements will harden and break free, causing a lightly finished head (only 2 half hitches) to come loose. I have seen anglers complain about their flies coming loose. Truth is... I think 90+% of them don't realize the culprit is their removal with forceps. They grab the fly by the hear with the forceps and this will certainly damage it. I use my fingers except for flies that are too deep and I can't slide my finger to the hook point. That is a very rare situation. I use them on fish with teeth that will hurt though. Ed.