Wets and Hook sizes

[eaustin]

I'm not a fan of the number 6 wet fly for today's trout. Maybe the brookies of yesteryear, maybe bass, maybe bluegill, I don't know. Andy catches fish on them, and I'm not doubting it. But in Europe, where they still fish wet flies all the time for trout, the average size sold has gone from a number 12 to 14, according to a very reputable professional tier over there. The flies are getting smaller overall, not larger. But those number 6s are fun to tie and display, that's for sure, and Andy's flies are works of art. If any #6 could catch a trout, it would be Andy's. Good to see you back posting.
Eric

[Andy B]

If you look at the old Herters catalogues and the Old E.J Hillies you will see a ton of wet flies sold in size 6 & 8. Yes there were the smaller sizes as well but it was very common to buy a size 6 or 8 Scarlet Ibis or Yellow Sally or March brown. I can not talk for over seas flies and there sizes. I can only talk about the USA and all my own experiences as well. I have had to many good days fishing and catching a very good amount of fish on these size wet flies. Todays Trout have proven to be no different then the Trout of the old days. I'll fish a size 6 or 8 wet fly in the Catskills any day and catch a good amount of fish. Due to my experiences and also reading Bergman and then seeing E.J Hillies and Herters Catalogues I will not change ways unless the fish start telling me so. Today's fish take these flies in size 6 & 8 very willingly. I have had to much success fishing these large size flies to be told other wise. I have had my share of being skunked on stream but it was due to the pattern I was using and my presentation. To me all my field trials and fishing experiences has shown me differently. I fish the Bergman flies exclusively and have proven patterns out to when they work and weather conditions. I have a ton more work to do and patterns to fish with, but I ask how many of you go out and do this. This has been an educational experience for me as well as a feeling what it was like back in the days of old making the same discoveries. R.W and I were disussing about a wet fly called the Professor this past Memorial day. I told him I was now fishing a fly called the Blue Professor that truly has outfished the Professor. If I remeber R.W you told me that this fly would not be as affective or as reliable. Well this year the Blue Professor has truly earned it's keep and deserves to be added to the fly box and given a try before fishing the professor. The point to further add was all I fished this fly was in size 6 and really taken a lot of fish on the Beaverkill and Willowemoc and on my home water the Ken Lockwood Gorge. Also to fish these larger Flies I use a intermediate sinking line. This made all the differance in catching fish or getting skunked. On this subject I will end in saying to each his own, but please don't tell me these flies are to big to catch fish now a days.

[This message has been edited by Andy B (edited 28 October 2005).]

[Don Bastian]

Hey Guys! Long time no see! Ha!
I got an e-mail from "mantis" the other day, said I should jump in here and offer my two cents. So here I am!

Been off all summer. Well, not off...but prostate cancer surgery on June 20, six weeks recovery and a follow-up PSA test on Sept. 20 which BTW was < 0.1 where it should be after the plumbing has been removed. ;-D My cancer was localized so looks like it's history!
Spent the summer recuperating, doing chores related to remodeling at home, used over 1-1/2 gallon of polyurethane - new hardwood floors, ceramic tile in kitchen. I did all the trim moldings, casings, new doors, etc.

On the wet flies... I tied & fished sizes #6 through #14 from the time I started in 1964. All locally in my PA streams. All sizes worked well.
Now, for tying at shows, and teaching in classes, the size #6 is what I use. I agree with Andy B. There is nothing wrong with fishing a #6 wet fly. A lot of guys think it's too big, but remember, we're not talking about a 4xl bugger hook, or a 3xl nymph hook. A winged wet fly tied on a standard length hook makes a fly about 1-1/4" in length. Snack food for even 10" trout.
I have a 1936 Weber Catalog. The standard sizes of wet flies sold were #6 through #12. Other sizes by special order.

Size #8 could be used if one is concened about hook size injuring fish. But, on another topic, I believe more well-meaning flyfishers inadvertently harm trout by playing them too long (too light of a tippet, drag set too light, etc., or by handling them carelessly or keeping them out of the water too long for photos) than what are injured by hooks.

As far as how well wet flies work? Here's one quick true story. Two friends of mine hooked over 100 trout in one day, on the Bighorn River in August of 2002 on #6 wet flies, gaudy patterns in fact. I have photos of these trout with the Neverwas, Rich Widow (in my DVD incidentally), Wilderness, and Richardson in their jaws.
Same scenario repeated one year later by friends of mine fishing during a hosted trip by well-known fly fishing guides over Labor Day weekend 2003. My customers out-fished six other boats in the party - on the Bighorn - with the same four - "large," "gaudy", wet fly patterns listed above.

Wet flies still work. No longer sold for a wide variety of reasons, but they still work!!

Good 2 B Back!

Don B.

[mantis]

Hi Donnie, Welcome back. Will be seeing you in short order at the shows.
Glad you are doing well. Me too! Every year we seem to lose a couple of old friends...You know about Hank. I also read on here and got a call from Bud that Andre P had lost his battle with cancer...We are lucky guys Donnie.. Lucky guys....lets hope it stays that way!

[Bandy]

I am usually nothing more then a "peeper" at these fishing boards but do enjoy the information you folks offer.

I justed wanted to weight in on the question of hook size for wet flies. Fished the waters in Yellowstone Park for 4 days last week in search of those "Spawner Browns" coming out of Hebgen Lake into the river. While we did not catch an over abundance of fish we did get our "fair share" of decent size fish which brings me to my point about hook size. We fished #6, #8, and #10 soft hackle wets and nobody that we encountered had any better catch rate. What makes this truly signifient is the ease of fishing, and tying, the soft hackle provides. No weigthed "buggers" and no "nymphing rigs", that seem to be the norm in what I can only call "cumbersome fumbling".

If we start with the tying one finds that they only need a hook, thread (I use floss) and a partridge feather. Start to finish, a two minute tie. As for casting the fly, what could be easier then an unweighted fly casted on a floating line, across-dead drift-swing and strip? Size seems to make a difference and #6 to #10's worked the best for us. On some of the local smaller creeks I will sometimes go to a size 12 but smaller then that does not appear to work nearly as well.

Just my two cents worth on a type of fly (wets) I have enjoyed coming back to after many years of "neglect".

Al

Manhattan, Montana

[This message has been edited by Bandy (edited 02 November 2005).]

[mantis]

Hi Bandy...glad you posted. Jump right in anytime and welcome!

[wet fly guy]

Yaffle,

I fish my wets in size 6 to 14 in all the Pa streams I fish. They work great for Steelhead and Salmon to ,I use them in 6's and 8's.

Wet

[Alan the Highlander]

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"The Future's Bright The Future's Wet Fly"
Tight Lines

[This message has been edited by Alan the Highlander (edited 08 November 2005).]