More Catskill style flies ponderings

[Hans Weilenmann]

Folks,

In mulling over the various Catskills flies related threads the following question came up. Any takers for offering thoughts or explanations?

With the tiers and their patterns as referenced as Catskill style tiers and flies going back to the early to middle part of the last century, it would seem a little surprising how the concept took on a prominence, identity and presence as late as the 19-seventies, with teh listed volumes published in that decade!

We were wondering what the reason or reasons for that might be. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Hans W


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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
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[Royal Wulff]

Hans, RW here,

As foolish as it may sound now, I think it has a lot to do with hero worship in it's various forms, as much as anything. Fly fishing is, after all, a game..a recreation. But when I fish a Catskill stream I know I'm treading the same ground, stepping on the same rocks, and walking along the same paths as the luminaries of the sport that went before me. The Catskill rivers aren't just any old crik out back. They are the "Cradle of American Fly Fishing" as some like to call them. Roscoe.."Trout town USA". The flies and all the history and tradition are just part of it. Copying and keeping alive "the beginnings" is a tribute.

Like kids and their favorite baseball teams and players, fly fishermen have their own favorites....writers, anglers, fly tiers, etc. Tradition builds on tradition, and those that came first will always be revered. It's not as silly as it sounds. Catskill School, style, tradition, whatever... are just words. Maybe it goes much deeper than can be explained. Copying and passing on to each generation, through writing, teaching, fly tying and practical application, what Gordon and all the subsequent luminaries of the Catskill School of fly fishers did is, in my opinion, a way of honoring them.

Later, RW

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"We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours." -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-


[This message has been edited by Royal Wulff (edited 30 August 2005).]

[slw]

Hans
I'll agree with RW's earlier time frame assessment of the term "Catskill Style" (a distinctly different term in my mind from "Catskill school" and "Catskill tradition"). I can't find reference to that particular term earlier than the early 1970's or so.

Lemme think some about what else was going on in the tying and fly fishing world here in the US at that time.

Hans,

What RW said!

We have various Halls of Fame in which we honor and revere the work and accomplishments of people in various walks of life and sports. Personally, in baseball it was Mick, Yogi, Whitey, Clete, Gidrey, Goose, Rizzuto, Maris, Murcer and other Yanks. Okay Kaufax and Drysdale too!

The Catskill Fly Fishing Center & Museum also has a Hall of Fame. Many of thos who have been inducted I only know through reading or hearing stories. The reason those people are in the Hall of Fame and the reason that the patterns endured(and endure today) is because, like that ad for the brokerage firm says, "They earned it".

Allan

[MR.JML]

The classics are still the best (whether it's classical music, classic art, or the classical Catskill patterns). Its what we build on, and learn from; a foundation.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Steve,

Methinks you forgot to include the smilie...

Cheers,
Hans


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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
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[Hans Weilenmann]

MR.JML,

Interesting approach, but perhaps a tad contradictionary?

The classics are still the best... Its what we build on, and learn from; a foundation.

If they are the best, then we cannot hope to improve on them? One wonders why one would build on

The only "best, and no room for improvement" man-made item I can think of, pinnacle reached, would be the the creations by the classic Verano based violin builders, such as the Guarneri family.

In flytying, I sincerely hope we will never reach that stage of perfection.

Cheers,
Hans W
running&ducking

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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier

[Hans Weilenmann]

Allan,

Please do not misunderstand me. I do not think one can have more respect for the tiers you listed, and what they have contributed to tying, than this person. It is not lack of respect which drives these discussions, quite the opposite.

If you feel there is a need to defend their contributions, I will stand right beside you

Cheers,
Hans W


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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
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[RonMT]

Han's I remember that I sure could tell the difference in flies tied in England, Ireland and other country's over there from flies tied here in the Catskill style.

Now do not get mad at me but at the time the English and other flies from countrys around that area were all over dressed and not tied very well in comparison to the Catskill Flies.

I know this because I still have some flies that came from Ireland and England in the 50's. I am sorry to say that the tiers at the time in those areas just did not tie the quality of flies tied here.

I will say that they are sure there now and tie just as well as just about any were else in the world. But at the time the tiers from those ares just didn't hold a candle to the Catskill Tiers. Heck I have lots of engish books from that time that show flies that just do not hold a candle.

Like I said there was a big difference at the time and anyone could see the difference. There is not much of a difference now days but I sure can tell a good Catskill Fly when I see it. Ron

[Hans Weilenmann]

Ron,

Now do not get mad at me but at the time the English and other flies from countrys around that area were all over dressed and not tied very well in comparison to the Catskill Flies.

Flies tied thoughout history have been a blend tier skill, the conditions they were to be fished under, the bugs they were meant to imitate, etc.

Within each region and era, then as much as today, there would be a spread of quality from excellent to autrocious.

Some of the tiers of name from the 'golden era' of the Catskills tying history produced absolutely superb flies. The same can be said about the classic English flies, many of which were tied extra-sparse. Others were tied very bushy and full. Call them the Wulff patterns of their day.

Some of the better known authors, on either side of the Atlantic, were on the top of the game in penmanship, but perhaps not the most skillful of tiers.

I am not impressed one bit by the Frederic Halford tied flies I have looked at. The same I will say of the few Theodore Gordon tied flies I have checked out

I know this because I still have some flies that came from Ireland and England in the 50's. I am sorry to say that the tiers at the time in those areas just did not tie the quality of flies tied here.

Even to this day, but certainly in earlier years, the norm for commercial flies in the UK was sub-standard. Not so much, though, because the skill was not present. Fly prices were so very low, no way quality hooks, materials or (specifically) care and attention were to be found in the commercial offerings in the shops. Your assessment on their quality is spot on. I am not so sure about the conclusion you have drawn from them, though.

Best regards,
Hans W


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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier