Poll - do you "trim" the bottom hackle on your dry fly's?

[slw]

Ray Smith was a regionaly well known and respected member of the Catskill school. A contemporary of the Dettes and Darbees, he's briefly mentioned in Darbee's book as "...a top professional tier and guide..."

In a 1972 interview with Cecil Heacox (Outdoor Life, May, 1972), Smith had a telling comment:

Heacox: Like most dry fly anglers,I prefer a high-profile fly.

Smith: "You want 'em to ride down through like a haystack?"

Heacox: I nodded.

Smith: "Well, the next time you're drawing a blank get out your scissors and give your fly a good hair cut. You'll be surprized how often it pays off."

Ray Smith is featured in the latest Issue of AAJ. [url=http://www.artofangling.com/raysmith.html:86988]http://www.artofangling.com/raysmith.html[/url:86988]

[This message has been edited by slw (edited 27 August 2005).]

Let's put this one to bed.
I don't think anyone said that triming(cutting) the hackle from the bottom of a dry fly is bad. No one said it creates an ineffective fly. However, what I believe and what I interpret is being said, is that if you trim the hackle bottoms, the result is not a Catskill style fly.

Allan

[slw]

Well, OK. I won't bother asking what a Catskill fly that's been trimmed is, then. ))

[LadyFisher]

Ture story: Many years ago Orvis had so many requests for the Marinaro Thorax tie that they decided to offer them for sale. BUT..
it didn't take long for someone to decide the 'real' ones were, well, difficult...so they (Orvis) was the first ones to cut the "V" from the bottom. They did not of course realize it was no longer a Marinaro Thorax tie. They may still be in the Orvis catalog that way, I haven't looked.
For all who wonder, no they do NOT float the same way.

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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

[adso4]

I think that the issue of effectiveness of trimmed dry flies is totally different from whether trimmed Catskill flies or Thorax Duns are authentic or not.

For the latter question, I think bottom hackles of Catskill flies should not be trimmed as long as you want them to remain authentic or true to fly-tying tradition/convention. However, related to the former question, trimmed catskill flies can be effective to catch fish.

Whether to trim hackles of dry flies depends on which profile you want for your flies, that is, high profile vs. low profile.

Usually, when trout selectively feed on emergers (low profile), they seldom show great interest in high-profile dry flies like authentic Catskill flies. However, when trout lean towards adult mayflies floating on the surface film (high profile), they still take emergers and low-profile dry flies are still effective.

[Ray Kunz]

Hold it for a minute ! If you amputate part of a classic Catskill dry is it still going to be a Catskill pattern or a new design?

[Donald Nicolson]

This has been a very interesting string and I have held back from commenting as I was sure there would be a lot of opinions, which I wanted to read before rushing to print.
The best reason I have heard was from Bob Wyatt that on emerger versions using light curved scud-type hooks, it improved the flies presentation.


This is the simple dry/emerger I submitted last year. I don't have a picture showing the 'V' cut but if you look in FOW for last year......

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Donald/Scotland



[This message has been edited by Donald Nicolson (edited 28 August 2005).]

[upthecreek]

In his book, Bob Miller of Little Lehigh fame, ties his modified Griffth Gnat by cutting off a bit of the bottom from the hackle.

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Steve V.

[RonMT]

Just after the Compara-Dun hit the street and while guiding some of the spring creeks in my area I started to put hackle on my compara-Duns. One wrap in back of the wing and two in front of the wing. Now I know some will ask "Why screw up a good fly with hackle" Well we have a lot of people fishing these creeks and they see a lot of the same flies all the time and get real use to them. So much so that they will not even look at them. I fond that I could trim the hackle to get the fly to set as I wanted it to and it also changed the over all look of the fly. Did it work. You bet it did and it still does because not to many people know about this or even try it after they know about it.

I can get the fly to set up or half way flush or all the way down just by trimming the hackle or not trimming it. I also believe that the light coming through the hackle gives the fish a different view of this fly.

Changing colors also works well on tough streams. Don't cange it a lot but enough to be different from what most people are using.

By the way triming the hackle is "Not" the Marinaro way of tying the Thorax style fly. So the way that it is tied most of the time now is like LF has stated more of an Orvis style or who ever came up with it for them?

ALso it has been stated that flies have been being trimmed for many many years and I agree. I have a book someplace that has a fellow talking about triming flies back in the 40's. I would give the name and all but it is packed away and I would never be able to find it. But believe me it is nothing new I have been triming hackle since the 60's.

I believe that if people read more about the Old Flies they would understand that it is real hard to come up with a totaly new fly pattern or a new way of tying any pattern. Ron

[This message has been edited by RonMT (edited 28 August 2005).]