dries landing with a face-plant

[northjerseyflyguy]

A year and a half into tying my own flies and for the most part I've been able to figure things out with a little help from the guys at the local shop. However, about 10% of my traditional (i.e.: not parachute) dries land with a face plant when I cast them. By face plant, I mean the hook end is pointed straight up out of the water. I've also had some flies land the opposite way with the hook pointed straight down into the water. When this happens, I usually play around with my cast and tippet knot before giving up and switching flies.

Is there a rule of thumb for balancing materials at either end of the fly? Am I right in assuming this is a tying and not a casting problem?

-Andy

[Fly_Line]

May want to check out this thread. Sounds like your problems are simular. [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/014376.html:531dd]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/014376.html[/url:531dd]

[Black Gnat]

Make sure the tail, wings,hackle,etc. are the correct size for the hook.
If they are, then maybe your winging material is a bit too heavy or bulky for the fly (eg. too much calf tail on that royal wulff),or your wings are a bit too forward, or you are winding your hackle shiny-side forward and the result slants toward the tail.
Can you post a picture of one of these misbehaving flies?

Best,
Dave

it is a proportion issue most likely.
which is easily solved once you recognize proper proportion...

you might want to move the wings back a tad.
you didn't mention if you're using hackle tips, upright and divided wood duck, deer hair or calftail. if you're using the latter two, lighten up on the amt used as well.

as far as the flies landing *** first I don't know what to tell ya. not something I've heard of or seen before.

[eaustin]

If you are talking about Catskill style dry flies, I've had the same problem in the distant past. If your wings are too tall, the fly will land on its face every time. Other proportion problems can cause it too, but mostly it's too tall wings. Your tail can be longer than shank length, but you'll get into trouble with your wings longer than shank length, shank length being from the back of the eye to where the hook starts to curve.
Eric

[billknepp]

Might I suggest, The only way I know to explain this "prob of traditional Dry Flies".

Obtain the "Dry Flies" Video By A.K.Best,Took care of this prob for me....and my flies just look better.....as well as more like the natural insects.

------------------
"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill




[This message has been edited by billknepp (edited 27 July 2005).]

[ashbourn]

It is most likely the wings are too long for the hackle but it can also be that the hackle is too soft. Stiff hackle might help or if it is a little more dense. When is goes in *** first chances are the tail is to short or not stiff. The trick with catskill flies are the stiffness of the hackle.

[northjerseyflyguy]

Thanks guys. It seems to be happening mostly with upright-and-devided wing styles which I've sometimes had trouble maneuvering my hackle around. Since it was 102 and too warm for trout yesterday, I looked at my offending flies and they seem to have some rather forward-set wings.

As for the arse end in the water flies, those were mostly compara-duns which it looks like I either went too light on the tail material or substituted a material that wasn't stiff enough.

[eaustin]

I love that coq de leon for tails on dries. It's pretty hard to get really good spade hackle anymore, and either the Spanish coq or the Whiting tailing packs work great for me. The "real" Spanish stuff is a bit better, but for everyday fishing the Whiting is fine. And you're right, if the wings are too far tilted forward that can be a problem, though many of the older books show the wings with that tilt. You can use the hackle winds to further support the wings, winding tight up against them from behind and in front. If you wind your hackle right, the wings will have nowhere to go.
Eric

"Mayfly Proportions" in "Tying Tips" will solve all your troubles.....

[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/tyingtips/part176.html:0b51f]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/tyingtips/part176.html[/url:0b51f]

~ Parnelli
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Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
"Swim" said the mama fishie, "Swim if you can"
And they swam and they swam all over the dam





[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 28 July 2005).]