Hook Selection

[Utah David]

I'm just looking at getting into tying, and doing my "research". Since I thought I'd just tie "barbless" hooks instead of "mashing" them down after the fact, I began looking at the offerings of various manufacturers. That's when I came across this from the Daiichi site:

"Contrary however to common logic, studies of hooked fish in Idaho and Oregon have confirmed that barbless hooks can actually inflict more damage to a fish than barbed hooks.? Therefore, barbless dry fly hooks are less popular (or practical) than dry fly hooks with mini-barbs."

Now I really am confused. I did a Google search to try and find the above studies, but thus far haven't produced anything supporting the statement. Although I have found plenty to support: Barbed or Barbless? When it comes to fish mortality rates it doesn't make any difference one way or the other.

Anyone care to comment?

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---David

(formerly known as "cluess", and only the name has changed)

[Jayatwork]

Try getting a barbed hook out of yourself or your clothes. I know the barbless hook is less hazardous to me if not the fish.

I saw this awhile back on another board. It might be what your talking about.

Barbed Hook Restrictions in Catch-and-Release Trout Fisheries: A Social Issue
D. J. SCHILL and R. L. SCARPELLA

Idaho Department of Fish and Game, 1414 East Locust Lane, Nampa, Idaho 83686, USA

Abstract.?We summarized results of past studies that directly compared hooking mortality of resident (nonanadromous) salmonids caught and released with barbed or barbless hooks. Barbed hooks produced lower hooking mortality in two of four comparisons with flies and in three of five comparisons with lures. Only 1 of 11 comparisons resulted in statistically significant differences in hooking mortality. In that instance, barbless baited hooks caused significantly less mortality than barbed hooks, but experimented design concerns limited the utility of this finding. Mean hooking mortality rates from past lure studies were slightly higher for barbed hooks than barbless ones, but the opposite was true for flies. For flies and lures combined, mean hooking mortality was 4.5% for barbed hooks and 4.2% for barbless hooks. Combination of test statistics from individual studies by gear type via meta-analysis yielded nonsignificant results for barbed versus barbless flies, lures, or flies and lures combined. We conclude that the use of barbed or barbless flies or lures plays no role in subsequent mortality of trout caught and released by anglers. Because natural mortality rates for wild trout in streams commonly range from 30% to 65% annually, a 0.3% mean difference in hooking mortality for the two hook types is irrelevant at the population level, even when fish are subjected to repeated capture. Based on existing mortality studies, there is no biological basis for barbed hook restrictions in artificial fly and lure fisheries for resident trout. Restricting barbed hooks appears to be a social issue. Managers proposing new special regulations to the angling public should consider the social costs of implementing barbed hook restrictions that produce no demonstrable biological gain.

[LWilliams]

No idea about the studies, but true or not it has nothing to do with the lack of popularity of barbless hooks. They are simply more difficult, and therefore, more expensive to make. That results in less BL options at a higher cost.

I'll continue to buy them barbed and bend them down myself.

I cannto think if a reason my why barbless hooks would do more damage.......

[Jayatwork]

Why would a barbless hook be more difficult and expensive to make?

Jay

[Buddy Sanders]

Utah David,

I think that Jays comment about getting the hook out of US is the important issue here.

With wind, twitchy trees always jumping into my casts, even the occasional casting mistake (occasional? Yeah, right...), I find removing hooks from ME (or my clothing/boat/passing wildlife/nearby structures and brush, etc.) to be an important skill in the sport.

Nice that debarbed hooks are easier to get out of the fish, but I truly don't care about that as much as the other.

I do try to buy barbless hooks where the hook style and availability permits. I have no problem with 'mashing' them before mounting them in the vice, though.

Another 'bad' habit of mine, I use the vise jaws to do this....works fine. I figure at what I paid for the vise, it should handle it.

As far as barbless hooks doing 'more damage' to the fish? Sounds absurd to me. Only thought that fits is that barbless penetrates easier, but still, wouldn't the hook bend be the limiting factor in penetration?

Anyway, I like the CONVENIENCE of the barbless/debarbed hook. That's why I do it.

Good Luck!

Buddy


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[url=HTTP://HOMETOWN.AOL.COM/RSAN2708/INDEX.HTML:9170b]HTTP://HOMETOWN.AOL.COM/RSAN2708/INDEX.HTML[/url:9170b]

[ducksterman]

OK,
Let me ask....if you are trophy fishing and you want to get the fish up to you and see it...[or sometimes not even up to you but you want to see it]...would you go barbless?...I think there in is the rub...I don't want to lose a fish too early but I don't mind...in fact I prefer... they get off "after I've done my thing".

[BigFlatBrook]

It would be more expensive to maintain two manufacturing lines -- one for barbless and one for barbed hooks -- than a single manufacturing line. Maybe that is where the comment about expense came from.

It's soooo much easier to remove barbless hooks -- how could they cause more damage.

[nowindknots]

ducksterman, absolutely!

Jim

[Mark Vendon]

Hi Utah David,

Since no one has mentioned it yet, by crushing your barbs down you are still left with a little bump there which helps keep the hook in slightly better than just a standard barbless hook.
About that survey, it's obvious these folks don't fish. Don't believe everything that's in print.
Ducksterman- If you have a good hook set, you keep good tension on your line, and your tippet/knots don't break, you'll land that trophy no problem on a barbless hook! You'll also have a lot easier time getting that hook out of it's mouth.

Regards,

Mark

[classicflytyer]

I use the Tiemco SP-BL and BL when available for the style hook I am tying on.
[url=http://www.tiemco.co.jp/english/:d4eef]http://www.tiemco.co.jp/english/[/url:d4eef]

I also ordered a free sample pack of Daiichi hooks. I have not used them yet but they look just as nice.

I like the barbless hooks b/c I can flick a fish off w/o touching it. I simply grab the hook by the bend and turning the point down toward the water. They are also WAY EASIER to remove from the net and clothing!

I have also had some really nice fish flip off. Is that b/c of the barbless hook? I don't know and I don't care it must have been meant to be.

Smashing the barb does leave a little bump. Does the bump help hold the fish? Does the bump make the hook harder to penetrate? Again, I don't know and I really don't care. Some days I catch fish other days I don't.

One last thing, smashing barbs is a pain and doing it to a box of 100 hook is a real pain.

Just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by classicflytyer (edited 04 May 2005).]