Fly Proportions the "Ancient Way"

[Byron haugh]

Remember these from "back in the day"?

I believe they were based on the ancient Greek mathematical formula which produced Phi - 1.618.
The use of the formula was called the Golden Mean and has been used since the Ancient Greeks in construction of buildings to Leonardo de Vinci in his paintings and drawings.

It was also used by Flycraft in making this old set of calipers

[sagefisher]

That is neat Byron. Personally, I use the old 'Eye Ratio Divider'.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[Byron haugh]

Me too, Larry, but it was a good tool for new tiers who hadn't developed their "eye calipers" yet.

[narcodog]

I have one and use it on occasion, a neat little tool.

[Byron haugh]

Narc,
If I do the math correctly, it would place the wing tie-in position at the 61% mark of the hook shank?

[Byron haugh]

I was hoping for feedback on this. I have seen famous tiers say to tie in the wings at anywhere from the 2/3 to the 3/4 point of the hook shank.......on the same or similar pattern.
Correction, I checked, i place the wing at about the 70% mark of the hook shank.

Perhaps Narcodog, who still has a FlyCraft gauge could look at the instructions on the back and let us know what it says and produces in terms of wing placement on the hook shank?

[redietz]

Surely we know the location of the wing base on most mayfly duns??

I'm not sure we do. The postitions of wings in comparison to the body varies widely among mayflies. Look at the trico dun on this page:

http://hipwader.com/2004/10/sunday-morning-tricos/

(the wing pretty much covers the whole length of the body)

and compare it with the bwo on this page:

http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/491

where it's pretty much just the front quarter of the body.

We may know the wing location on any species, but I'm not sure there's a position that applies to "most" species.

What's more, beside tying something that looks like the natural, people desing flies for mechanical properties, like not falling flat on their face. An individual tyer might also put the wing a bit futher back to leave more room for a bushier hackle, or to leave a gap of bare hook for a turle knot. (Not that most of us use a turle knot, but it is kinda a tradition in Catskill flies.)

What I really like about the tool you show is that it makes it easier to tie flies with consistent proportions.

[Byron haugh]

Thanks Bob,
I was going to mention the "balance" thought. Seems to me this can always be addressed by the adjustment of hackle?
Length and/or location; i.e., no. Of turns behind v. In front of wings.
Just that I find it so interesting....
Do you think any tier adjusts wing tie - down point from insect to insect.?
The photos I see, by the same tier, appear to have the same wing position regardless of the insect bring imitated?

It is all a bit like cotton candy. When you think you have something stable.......it melts away.......

Know what I mean?

[Byron haugh]

Bob,
To your point about the variation in insect wing positioning. Take this close-up of a Western Green Drake, for example.
Now, if you were to draw a vertical line from the wing tip to the body/hook shank, at what point of the hook shank would a vertical wing be tied down to get to the same point at the tips of the wing? Seems like it would be be at a point less than 2/3 of the hook shank............unless you were to tie a yarn wing and cut the wing at an angle with the longest fibers at the rear of the wing????

[redietz]

Yeah, you've made a point I forgot to mention: where you tie in the wings depends on how you make them. If I were going use Catskill wood duck wings, or quill slip wings and really wanted to closely imitate the actual insect, the half way point wouldn't be absurdly far back. OTOH, if they were made with a hackle burner, they could be much further forward.

To answer your other question

Do you think any tier adjusts wing tie - down point from insect to insect.?
The photos I see, by the same tier, appear to have the same wing position regardless of the insect bring imitated?

No, I don't anyone varies the position of the wing from insect to insect. They pick a point that works for them and stick with it. (And I think that the "mechanical" aspect wins out over the "imitative" aspect every time.

The original Adams was tied with the wings right at the eye of the hook. I can't think of any insect that has wings on it's head, but yet the Adams obviously caught fish right from the start.