Sparseness

[Byron haugh]

Alan,
I must be missing something......

Is not the choice of hook shank length done to mimick the natural in insect length?

[AlanB]

Here's a plate from North Country Flies by TE Pritt.
northcountryflie.jpg
If you look closely you will see the hooks are quite long in the shank compared to modern hooks used, but the flies are tied short. Shorter hooks were available, and could have easily been used. The fact is they were not. That makes me wonder what change has prompted the switch to using short shank hooks?

Cheers,
A.

[EDIT]

A further thought occures. These are illustrations of the flies not photographs, therefore are an idealised picture of what the author thinks the flies should look like. If He was only tying on longer shank hooks because he was forced to by availability, he would not illustrate them this way.

[NJTroutbum]

That's very similar to what you see in Atlantic salmon patterns. Many of the traditional patterns are tied in standard and low-water variations. I think tying styles are affected quite a bit regionally by the waters that are present. Heavy water, larger patterns, with more full profiles. Skinny clear waters, sparse patterns become the norm.

Allan,

Do you think the eyeless hooks attributed to the longer shank early on and for a period they just stayed with that length?

Ralph

[Ed_D]

Ed, I understand the leverage point, however, as these hooks were blind why not simply remove the excess after bending. It would not be the issue it would be with an eyed hook.

Cheers,
A.

Alan,
I didn't know the eyes were blind. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Regards,
Ed

[redietz]

A further thought occures. These are illustrations of the flies not photographs, therefore are an idealised picture of what the author thinks the flies should look like. If He was only tying on longer shank hooks because he was forced to by availability, he would not illustrate them this way.

I use that same line reasoning when arguing for somewhat longer hackles than are use today. However, I have to wonder if he just wasn't thinking of having enough room to sufficiently whip in the snell; a size 00 hook is pretty small for that sort of thing. (Not that they were all that size.)

The photos in Edmunds & Lee show similarly proportioned hooks, so the ideal and the real match pretty well.

I also wonder if the use of snecked hooks (in the sense of a squared bend, not in the sense of an offset) back then wasn't an attempt to retain a minimum length for attaching the snell without making the hook too long. (Although the only sneck bend in E&L seems to be on the snipe and purple, which was tied on a size 1 hook.)

Also, the use of a vise vice tying in hand might have had something to do with the introduction of shorter hooks.

[lastchance]

Whether I'm right or wrong, I'm not sure, but I put more turns of hackle on flies I will be using in swift water. In my way of reasoning, I think they offer more of an attraction to the fish.

Alan B.
You're exactly right. Stripping off one side of the hackle on a feather make the head too bulky for my tastes.
This is a good thread.

[Hans Weilenmann]

You're exactly right. Stripping off one side of the hackle on a feather make the head too bulky for my tastes.

LC,

All depends how the hackle is tied in (tip or butt) and in which direction (towards eye, or towards bend) it is wrapped. The heads on my flies, also the ones tied in with barbs stripped from one side, look exactly the same as those where I did not strip the barbs = in both cases the head consists of a three turn whip finish

Hey Alan B - you know what comes next, right - turn and a half of hackle and an even distribution of barbs is a bit at odds with one another, no?

Cheers,
Hans W

[AlanB]

LC,

Hey Alan B - you know what comes next, right - turn and a half of hackle and an even distribution of barbs is a bit at odds with one another, no?

Cheers,
Hans W

Not really Hans, If you look at the plate I posted earlier you'll see the hooks are quite fine. and the barbs are well spaced on most game bird hackles so they spread quite well.

As for tying in by the tip or butt of the hackle I've seen your videos! You use the same section of the feather as I do, but working from the other end. The result is the same. What was meant by not tying in by the butt when I was taught was much lower down the feather where it is really thick.

Cheers,
A.