Dry fly hackle twisting

[stcroixguy]

Good morning ,

I have a couple of expensive skins that the feathers twist horribly when I wrap them. Nothing I do helps. One is my "high grade" grizzly the other a nicely colored furnace hackle. They look like great feathers, long, good number and size of barbs. Both skins, I thought, would have a lifetime of feathers in them. I don't want to mention the brand, but they are from one of the very popular names in hackle.



The flies I tie with them look like a "ball" of hackle rather then a nice neat "collar". I have caught fish with them, but they look a sketchy at best. I talked to the fly shop where I bought one of them, and got a lecture on how to wrap hackle. No offer to look at said skin or offer to return or exchange.

Question;

Should I just discard these two skins (my estimate replacement cost about $250+) and buy new ones?

Just suck it up and do my best with them?


Thanks,

SCG

[ScottP]

SCG,

First thing I'd check is to make sure you have a smooth thread base for wrapping the hackle; uneven or bumpy will make it difficult to get a neat wrap. Do you have any pics of flies you've tied with the hackle? Any pics of an individual hackle to see if it's excessively cupped? I've got a few capes with cupped hackle (I picked them up at bargain prices, maybe $10 each) that aren't the easiest to work with, but, with a little coaxing, will produce acceptable flies.

Regards,
Scott

[Hans Weilenmann]

SCG,

Those necks can be a real pain, and a big disappointment when having shelled out serious money for a quality (debatable in this case) genetic neck.

If the stems of the hackles do not play ball, it may be time to change the pitch.

On a hard surface, even a level hard surface, they may (will) flip and end up as you described.

Try a slender bed of a softer material, such as a skinny layer of dubbing, and you may find these feathers behaving much nicer.

Cheers,
Hans W

[stcroixguy]

The grizzly feathers twist horribly no matter the base, be it bare hook, dubbing or parachute post. I have tried everything. Hackle pliers, stripping one side, "pre bending",twisting the opposite direction while wrapping, pre soaking, none of the feathers wrap worth a s***. (Sorry)

The furnace hackle is better, some of the smaller feathers are better, but still a pain.


My other necks and packaged feathers are fine. Problem is the grizzly and furnace are the two colors I use most.

Other then actually tying a fly with a feather from the neck, how does one make sure , before you buy it, that the feathers are not going to twist like this?

SCG,

Those necks can be a real pain, and a big disappointment when having shelled out serious money for a quality (debatable in this case) genetic neck.

If the stems of the hackles do not play ball, it may be time to change the pitch.

On a hard surface, even a level hard surface, they may (will) flip and end up as you described.

Try a slender bed of a softer material, such as a skinny layer of dubbing, and you may find these feathers behaving much nicer.

Cheers,
Hans W

[Allan]

Other than actually test tying a feather you have three alternatives:
1)This is not a sure fire way but it may give some indication - Hold a feather out from the skin and form a circle. See if the stem flips. If it does, don't buy.
2)Make sure the hackle is from a reputable and established breeder.
3)Get a guarantee. A reputable breeder will back up his skins.
I'm hesitant about recommending a breeder but I will because I've dealt with him for a long time, he has an excellent flock, and he guarantee his feathers - Charlie Collins, Pine City, NY
I've dealt with Denny, also an excellent flock, here on FAOL for a long time and I'm sure he guarantees his too.
Both great to deal with.


Oh, as far as what you already have: 1)try to return to the seller/breeder; 2)toss it because it doesn't get any better; 3)live with it; and 4)sell it on ebay.

Allan

[billyspey]

This is the very reason that I only buy saddles stems are hot as stiff and they don't twist.

[narcodog]

I think if you would contact the breeder that they will issue some new feathers. I have heard of them doing that in the past.

[appalachian angler]

You might try steaming the feathers in small batches or individually...this will usually soften up the stems. Do you know about "folding the hackle" once it is tyed in? On Catskill style flies, try tying one feather in front of the wings, and one in back. Wrap the front feather backwards with your bobbien behind the wings, then tye off. Wrap the back feather fowards using a rocking motion as you take turns of hackle. gently rock the thread/bobbin as you wind the thread fowward over and between the wraps of hackle. By doing this, you reinforce the hackle (more durable fly) and can manipulate wayward barbs as you go.

aa

[Jayatwork]

If I was paying $125/cape for hackle I would expect them to wrap correctly. I'd try to get either the retailer or producer to make it right. That's way too much money to have to deal with twisted stems. At that price they should wrap themselves.

[Moscow]

Before you 'toss' them, wash the whole neck in warm soapy water. Dish detergent will do fine. Rinse really well and then blow dry it. I've dyed hackles, on the skin and off and the warm, actually, hot (95C) water straightens them out. Years ago, I bought some black dry fly hackle that had been wound up and put into one of those 1x2x3" plastic cases. The stuff was so twisted I nearly tossed it but after a wash and dry it was fine. Steaming is a good alternative, as AA suggested, but I find washing and drying easier.