can anyone help with deer hair flies?

[Byron haugh]

MR.JML:

What does what the deer was killed with have to do with the quality of the hair? It is what it is at the time the animal was killed; regardless of what it was killed with. Diet will have a definite impact on it's quality, according to Chris Helm, one of the better known deer hair tiers of the day.

The present, and former, commercial tiers of my acquaintance do not put down a thread layer on the hook; they just jamb knot and start spinning or stacking; whichever the pattern requires. (Each technique has it's own 'procedure' for a 'perfect' job.) I do NOT mean to imply that a thread base will not work; just that it is unnecessary.

I have tied with whitetail deer body hair for years, of every color imaginable, and have NEVER found it to "...become[s] a bitch...". We have had 8 and 10 year old's tie like pros with it in our club's fly tying classes. It is a snap if you use the proper techniques for both spinning and stacking. Each method has it's own technique for performing with no difficulty.

None of the outstanding deer hair tiers of my acquaintance use Kevlar thread: you can cut the hair with it. In fact, most advise AGAINST it's use. Most use either Flat Waxed or Size A tying threads for the larger 'bugs'; some may use Gelspun. In fact, most advise AGAINST the use of Kevlar. Some of these individuals are, or were, commercial deer hair bug tiers and have used every thread available.

Cheers!

It may tell what time of year the animal was killed due to hunting seasons?

[aged_sage]

spoof:

The amount, or density, of the under coat should be of no consequence as you should comb it out; regardless of when the animal was killed.

Byron:

This should really not be a major concern as deer season, both bow and gun, even black powder, for which some states have a 'special' season, is typically in the fall and winter of the year when the winter coat is already pretty well grown in, if not completely in.

For top-notch info on deer hair, and where to find it on a hide, see Chris Helm's excellent article on the subject. It is found on his web site: whitetailflytieing.com. Chris is widely recognized as on of the top 'afficionados' in the country on deer hair and tying with it.

[Byron haugh]

The deer and elk hair at Blue Ribbon Flies is the best I'ver ever tied with. I seem to recall that they say the early season kills are the best. I will check though and let you know for sure.

[NJTroutbum]

A deer's coat changes seasonally. It is not the same throughout the year. Yes, the unddderfur will change, but so does the hair itself. Here in the northeast your summer coat will be a reddish brown, which turnes to a much more grey coat in the late fall. Wether or not it was an early California coastal blacktail shot while still in velvet during archery season, or a coastal blacktail shot during the winter on the Olympic Peninsula is a big difference coatwise.

I've shot, skinned them and butchered them in all seasons coast to coast....it makes a difference.

[aged_sage]

Byron and NJT...

You are both correct. The coats are heaviest in the winter and thinner in the summer, with two major shedding periods during the year. This phenomenon is part of their 'built-in-thermoregulatory-system'. Thus, their coats do vary with the season, as the shedding process does not occur over night, but over a protracted period of time. The same can be said for the 'growth' period when the new coat is coming in. And yes, the hides are at their prime early in the season. The new winter coat has just grown in and there has been minimal time for the hair tips to get damaged: in other words; fewer 'split ends'. We have all seen hides where the hair ends in some areas were badly damaged; be it from fighting, 'rubbing' against trees etc., to mark territory, or whatever else that may befall them.

Thus, "Early in the Season", the hides are at their prime.

Cheers!

[Byron haugh]

Thanks. Well written!

[Waders]

Spoof,
The bucktail is tied in along with the hair at a longer length than the spun/stacked hair. Tied in like wings or even rubber legs, sort of figure 8 method. Hold out of the way when trimming. The bug is trimmed to sized working around the legs. As far as spinning hair on a hook, I use the flymaster plus as well. I have tried many others but stick to the flymaster plus. It's the one thread I can trust to take a beating and pack hair tight enough to be able to get a smooth body look after trimming.

[Silver Creek]

I want deer hair with short tips. The tips are the solid and black. As noted above, the early season female has the best hair for tying Comparaduns and EHCs according to Craig Mathews of BRF.

[spoof85]

Waders, i end up with gaps ever time i use the figure 8 method. weather i do one locking figure 8 wrap, or 5, always a gap.... i currently have a friend making a huge hair stacker for me, i think my main problem now is not being able to stack larger amounts of hair at a time. thanks for the input though...

Silver, that is some really nice hair, nice and straight too.

does anyone know why Byron was banned? he seemed like an upstanding fellow, and ive been away for some time. just curious...

thanks,
spoof

[aged_sage]

Spoof...

If you are either spinning or stacking deer hair, you do NOT need to stack it. The tips will be cut off in the trimming anyway; hence no need to stack, for which the only purpose is to even the tips.

Once the hair has been cut from the hide and the underfur combed out, simply make a 'shallow' cut on the butt ends to even them up, and without changing your grasp of the bunch, reach into the palm area of your hand and cut off the tips. You will now have a hair bunch that has both ends even. Simply attach to hook and proceed!

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