Mustad R50 versus 94840

[Jayatwork]

Jay,

Thanks. So no idea what the thinking was behind it?

No, those proportions were around long before TMC. I think they are close to the suggested proportions in J. Edson Leonard's book, or maybe another book from the same period. I don't know the origin of them though.

Well, I was wrong about Leonard. His proportions have the longer tail etc. But I do remember seeing the shorter proportions in a chart in one of the few references I had available in 1978, and none were new at the time.

[Jayatwork]

Different people have different ideas about what they like in a fly hook. When I started tying, Mustad was about all I could find. When TMC came onto the scene, they were sharper had much smaller barbs and better formed eyes. I was happy to pay extra for them. Mustad forged dry fly hooks also had very flattened wire in the bend area, which didn't work well with the vise I was using at that time.

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah, Mustad R50 vs 94840

[Byron haugh]

jszymczyk
:
Mustad fly hooks are as good or better quality than anything else out there, and usually not as expensive. This discussion gets reheated periodically on here and other fora. I've only been tying for a little more than 30 years, so I don't have the wealth of experience that some of you do. However, when I was able to scrape together money for REAL fly hooks early on, they were all Mustads, what are referred to as the "Classic" series today. Anyone have any idea how many billions of fish were caught on these horrible, totally inferior hooks before the modern jewelry boutique style hooks of today? Byron, are you joking that you don't know ANYONE who ties on Mustads?


no. Most tiers I know either use TMC, Daichi, Dairiki (sp?) or (I can never spell this - Gamatksu which, by the way I really like).

[Mark Vendon]

I didn't mean to suggest that there was a problem today (in fact, I'm pretty sure I didn't). As for the history, it was 1950 and the letter was to the supplier, H.J. Knoll. Dette cited customer complaints about brittleness. He also had his own complaint about the hook eyes not being closed.

H.J. Knoll wrote back saying it had had more complaints regarding the Allcocks it used to supply.

The other interesting thing to me was the Dette gauge (I have a copy that I printed off this site), was based on the Allcock. The 94840 was sized differently. With the Allcock, a size 12 fly took a size 12 hackle. With the 94840, a size 12 fly took a size 10 hackle.

Steven,

Here's a comparison of a size 12 Mustad 94840, to a couple of size 12 Allcock Model Perfect W173's. The Mustad is the upper right one, and I stuck two Allcock's by it so you could compare the shank and gape size. You can see that it's really pretty close on the gape.

Regards,

Mark

[Royal Wulff]

i've never used anything but Mustad in 50 years of fly tying, although I always used 94833 fine wire instead of 94840 for my dry flies. I don't even know what the equivalent is in their new series because I acquired enough 94833's to last through two lifetimes.

RW

[NJTroutbum]

90% of my tying is on Mustad hooks. Over the years I have substituted many of them with Orvis hooks (which appear to be Daichi?) since the closest shop to me is an orvis shop. However, I in no way consider Mustad to be inferior & I much prefer the shank length on the 94840 over the rest.

[Steven]

Steven,

Here's a comparison of a size 12 Mustad 94840, to a couple of size 12 Allcock Model Perfect W173's. The Mustad is the upper right one, and I stuck two Allcock's by it so you could compare the shank and gape size. You can see that it's really pretty close on the gape.

Regards,

Mark

Huh, so the Mustad is actually shorter for the same hook size?

[Mark Vendon]

Huh, so the Mustad is actually shorter for the same hook size?

Hi Steven,

For that size it is, for others it's a little different. Here's another pic where the Allcocks are on the left, and Mustad 94840's are to the right. I don't have a 94840 size 10 Mustad, or it would have been in the pic. They go from size 10 to 20. The paper helps a bit to see the size comparison. The Mustads are pretty much late 90's/early 2000's stock when they were in 100 count packs. Besides the smaller sizes, they're still pretty close.

Regards,
Mark

[Steven]

This begs the question: Why did Walt Dette think it appropriate to upsize the hackle for a Mustad if they were shorter than the Allcock?

[Allan]

Steven,

I don't know if this answers your question and certainly won't even hazzard a guess as to the Dette's reasoning. I will say that in all the readings where there's talk about hackle sizing, it's based on the relationship of the hackle length to the size of the 'gape', not the length of the hook.

Also, WOW! A few of the eyes on the Allcocks are really bent at a severe angle.

Allan