A Painful experience...

[kbproctor]

I quit smoking a little more than 6 years ago. I have tried hard to be a tolerant ex-smoker. I never wanted to be one of "THOSE" ex-smokers. All of you that either smoke or used to know what I mean. I am about to fail miserably at that quest. Colorado now has a smoking ban in effect for most businesses. There is an exception allowed for bars and clubs that sell enough tobacco products to be classified as "Cigar Bars". This is a fairly recent development but has made visiting and participating in activities with the VFW once again possible for my wife.

After many years of smoking, she developed COPD and simply can not tolerate smoke or smoking any longer. She can not go to Tahosa with me as the altitude gets to her very quickly. My wife has been a member of the VFW Ladies Auxiliary for 35 years and is a past district president. We used to go to every District and Department meeting held and developed many good friends.

Yesterday, my wife and I went to what used to be a favorite VFW Post outside our own for District meetings and to see some of those old friends. This post somehow managed to get a "Cigar Bar" license so smoking is allowed. Smoking is confined to the bar and game room areas. We knew this when we went to the post and went through a side entrane to avoid the smoke. We opened the door and it hit like a sledgehammer. The main rooms used for the meetings were not too bad but you could smell the smoke whenever a door to the bar or game room was opened. I braved the bar area for cokes and a beer. The smoke was thick but I was in and out so I didn't think much of it at the time other than I was glad I did not have to stay in there. We generally enjoyed the visit. We got to see old friends and make some new ones and enjoyed a great meal. We were glad to get out of the smoke, however, even though it was not overpowering or even very noticeable in the meeting rooms.

Now for my rant. On the way home, I noticed that I smelled smoke on myself. Not much but it was there. But it wasn't until this morning that it hit with full force. I could taste the smoke on my breath. My eyes still burned and I could feel it in my chest. I even had the hacking cough back that I had lost when I quit smoking 6 years ago! All of this from just 5 hours at this post.

I know. I have not only heard, but USED all the arguments about smoking still being legal and how it is a freedom of choice thing, but MY freedom of choice was severely compromised yesterday. Yes, I had a choice to leave, but shouldn't I have been able to spend time with those old and new friends without the smoke? Shouldn't I have been able to attend the meetings, grab a brew, and shoot the bull without having to send my sport coat to the cleaner to get it deodorized or taste smoke in my breath the next day?

That used to be a really fun place to go. It was mentioned that attendance was light. Could it have been that others feel the same way I do and just don't feel the trip to that post is worth it anymore?

[tedshuck]

I have never been a smoker, but I have put up with second hand smoke for much of my life. I remember riding in cars in Minnesota in the winter with all the windows up and four other people in the car smoking. I remember sitting in a foreign airport departure lounge with 100 other people and I was the only one not smoking. I remember sitting in many bars where it was just expected that the air would be thick with smoke. I just put up with it because I really felt I had no choice.

Now as the laws have restricted where people are allowed to smoke, I have enjoyed clean air. I have become more sensitive and notice even a whiff of smoke from a distance. I am so grateful that these laws have been passed to allow me to breath clean air without others imposing their addiction on me. I know that I would not attend a meeting in a place that allowed smoking today. You may be correct that this exemption for the VFW Post has brought in a few smokers, but kept away more people who choose not to be around the smoke. It would definitely keep me away.

Ted

[Uncle Jesse]

I have never smoked an entire cigarette in my life, I have occassionally enjoyed a cigar but hate the taste the day after. The VFW is a private organization and as such I am in favor of letting them do pretty much what they want to do. However, considering the percentage of smokers has dropped to about 25% I would wonder if the majority of the members would vote to continue allowing smoking if it were put to a vote. It may be a case of where members just stay away rather than go and endure the atmosphere. If you could poll all of the members of the local VFW post I would not surprised if more than half were now non-smokers who would enjoy stopping by for a beer if it were not for the smoke. As a kid I remember standing out in the grease rack of my dad's service station to get away from the smoke of the "service station bums" in the winter.

[PRM]

We went to a Casino in southwestern NY to see the Doobie Brothers yesterday. Great concert! But Kevin, we had a very similar experience there, as smoking is allowed and most people there do smoke - heavily. Got a very nasty sore throat, burning eyes, etc. -all the second-hand smoke symptoms. My wife has severe allergies this time of year, and I have copd, so going there without considering the effects was our mistake. As soon as we got home we got the clothing in the washer and took showers to get rid of the stink. I'd forgotten, but the same thing happened last year at an outdoor concert of Three Dog Night. Even outdoor concerts are difficult, not to mention the "sick-to-my-stomach" feeling I get when I even smell second-hand smoke. We've learned the hard way that we just can't continue to be in that sort of venue. And yes, I'm a former smoker...

[WarrenP]

I know that I will be "hammered" for posting this, but, it is my honest opinion on this subject and since most of my posts to any threads seem to "kill" the thread, I have nothing to lose by posting my thoughts and opinions.

First - I am very sorry that you had to go through what you did, but, that is life in the real world. I honestly feel you were more offended by the odor than being worried about your health risk by being exposed to second hand smoke.

There is not enough evidence to support any claims about the effects of second hand smoke. Most of the the so-called evidence is not accurate and has been tampered with to read the way the non-smokers want it to read to support their agenda.

There are "tons" of proven facts and research to support alcohol related deaths caused by people driving after enjoying their favorite brews at club meetings and bars, but, we are not going to do anything about the results from drinking and driving even though they can be supported with facts. Same with deaths caused from driving while using cell phones and texting.

I do not mean to upset anyone with the above opinions. They are just my opinions based on research and facts that most do not want to read about. I smoke a pipe and I enjoy it. I make it a practice to never smoke my pipe in anyone's vehicle or home. I respect the rights of non-smokes and those who have quit and only wish they would leave my rights alone. I am so tired of watching and listening to groups that are out to outlaw things that they do not like. Now these groups are trying to destroy my Christian religion and making it illegal but their's is the "right" religion.

Once again, please understand that this post is not meant to offend or upset anyone and if it has, then I apologize. I am just tired of be "trodded" on because I do something that a group does not like. I see things happening everyday that I do not agree with, but, I do not try to ban people together to make it illegal and to change the world to my ways. I respect other's opinions and just wish they would do the same for me.

Please "google" up the facts on alcohol and second hand smoke deaths. I think you will be surprised at what you read especially on the second hand smoke issue. All the "stated facts" were tampered with and twisted around to the groups agenda. The facts can be supported and proved on alcohol related deaths. Yes, I do drink beer socially. I do not drink until I am falling down drunk and then get into a vehicle and drive. Anything done is excess is harmful to your body.

I support all facts about drinking and driving because they can be proved. I do not support any of the "so-called facts" of the effects of second hand smoke because there is not any evidence to support their facts. It is all group driven and myths.

I am so sorry for posting this, but, I am glad I have had the chance and freedom to post it and I hope and pray I have not "ticked" anyone off. If I have, then this will be another posts that turned into a "thread killer" and I am getting use to that. Here is some interesting reading"

http://yourdoctorsorders.com/2009/01...nd-hand-smoke/

And this:

http://www.edgarsnyder.com/drunk-dri...tatistics.html

[Jackster]

Anyone remember this little request? "Can we please have just a tiny corner of restaurants reserved for non-smokers"? Once they get their foot in the door...
A year or so ago they were trrying to ban smoking from within two miles of Myrtle Beach!
I like the old saying, everything in moderation. I just wish this really included 'everything'... including stomping on other people toes.

[kbproctor]

Warren, It was not my intention to come off as whiney at all. I have shared your very thoughts in the past. Yes, the smell did get to me. There is absolutely no doubt about that. The funny thing is that under the right circumstances I might actually try to catch a bit of smoke coming off a cigarette. The smoke coming right off a cigarette still smells good to me most of the time. This was different, though. BTW, I will not drive after even one drink. My wife does not drink at all and has therefore earned the title of "Permanent Designated Driver" when we go anywhere I might have a beer or a Crown & Coke.

This was kind of an AHA! moment for me. I was at the same post a few months ago and it was not near as bad as it was yesterday. The ventilation was off or something. I was not suffering the following day after previous visits due to second hand smoke like I am today. I am totally taken back that I can taste it still. It's been a good 17 hours since we left that post and I can taste the smoke. My chest is tight and breathing is a bit more labored. I woke up with the "smoker's hack" for a short while and really do not like how I feel this morning. I have had my morning coffee, drank some lemonade, my usual Wild Cherry Diet Pepsi, and used mouthwash about 4 times and the taste keeps coming back. It is in my system. I am also having trouble accepting that I did this to my wife and step-kids for many years, although I doubt they were subjected to the concentration we were yesterday.

I can tolerate smoke outdoors. I just move upwind and f*rt. I have good friends that smoke that I like to spend time with. I try to accomodate their addiction because I know how hard it is to quit. I am not going to quit being friends with any of them because they smoke. I value them and they are an important part of my life. Do I wish they would quit? Of course I do, but I can not make them quit. That is a personal decision. Either way, they are my friends and I will want to spend time with them.

For me, quitting was not something that made me suddenly able to hike in the mountains again or anything like that. I lost the hacking cough, got my sense of smell and taste back and that's about it. I still get winded about as easily as I did while I was smoking and I am finding I have allergies that were masked by the smoking. I don't have to clean ashtrays anymore, am saving a couple hundred bucks a month, and don't have to live my life around smoking. By that I mean finding a place to have a smoke, making sure I dispose of the butt appropriately, not needing to stop what I am doing because I am jonesing for a smoke, making friends wait while I have a smoke before getting in their car, and many other associated things.

Warren, I believed much like you that the goings on about second hand smoke were just so much hype and crap. My revelation was that they are not. Granted, I was subjected to a high concentration of second hand smoke yesterday. Much more than I would have been subjected to if I had stopped by your place for an evening of conversation. I feel it. I taste it. It's real. It's not my imagination like I accused my wife of so many times after she had quit and before I did.

My whole point in bringing this up is that until this morning, I believed exactly as you had just posted. I didn't buy all the second hand smoke stuff. I sure do now. I thought I was a considerate smoker. I see now that I was not.

[Lotech]

Kevin, I know exactly what you mean. I smoked for 35 years and my wife smoked for 45. We both quit on March 15, 1998. We had no idea how bad we smelled until after we quit.
I wonder if it would do any good to send copies of what you wrote here to the manager of that local VFW, with a cc the national VFW headquarters.

[lastchance]

Well, we all know alcohol is less intrusive. There is no problem with second hand alcohol consumption. I don't go home smelling like beer if I'm not drinking it unless someone spills it on me. I once smoked, but I feel the public has a right to decide if they want to inhale first or second hand smoke. Having a smoking corner in a bar or restaurant is like having a peeing corner in a swimming pool.

[Mike Thomas]

Well, we all know alcohol is less intrusive. There is no problem with second hand alcohol consumption. I don't go home smelling like beer if I'm not drinking it unless someone spills it on me. I once smoked, but I feel the public has a right to decide if they want to inhale first or second hand smoke. Having a smoking corner in a bar or restaurant is like having a peeing corner in a swimming pool.

As an ex smoker, I could not agree more with Lastchance! I used to choose to fill my lungs with smoke, now I choose not to. I am sure most smokers would be up in arms if a factory opened close to home that pumped fumes into the neighborhood that include all sorts of poison. If it is not ok for an industry to poison the air with second hand fumes why is it ok for the individual? As an aside it is now against the law in NZ to smoke in a public building or work place, including the pubs. The only problem with this is in the summer when you want to sit outside in the beer garden it is full of smokers!
If you want to smoke it is your choice and I would fight for your freedom to do so, but why inflict the smell, smoke and toxins on everyone else, how hard is it to step outside when you want a smoke? Come to that how hard is it to not drop cigarette butts on the ground or even worse in the water when fishing? Stub it out and put it in the trash!
All the best.
Mike