Rod weights & line strengths

[Uncle Jesse]

It seems to me I have seen fishermen critized for using too light of a rod for the size fish they are pursuing, but the same people seem to find it acceptable to use whatever weight line they deem necessary to best present and hook the fish they are after. It seems to me that I can land most fish as quickly using my 3 wt. rod and a 4 lb. tippet as I can on my 5 wt. or 6 wt. rod using the same tippet. I would like to see an intelligent discussion along these lines.

[sagefisher]

Uncle Jesse,

I fish 3 weights up to 9 weights, naturally depending upon the type of fish and size I will be going for. I have a philosophy of 'It is better to use a rod slightly heavier than to use a rod that is slightly lighter' for the intended target. I Catch & Release all fish. Because of that I do not want to place any undue stress upon the fish I catch. I really enjoy the cast and the take and the initial feel of the hook-up. Then all I want to do is get the fish in and released as soon as possible.

I know of people who fish for salmon with 5 weight rods, and I really don't like to see that. They spend an far too much time in fighting the fish, which causes an excessive amount of strain on the fish and could possibly cause the fish to die. That would be a shame.

Another factor is if there are two of you in a boat and a fish is caught on an outfit that is too light, then all that extra time that person is using to get the fish to the boat means that the other person can not fish, so you are taking away fishing time from your partner. That isn't nice at all.

So for trout in the western rivers I use 5 weights and 6 weights. For pocket waters in small streams I use 3 and 4 weights. For panfish I use 3 to 5 weights. For bass and salmon I use 7 to 9 weights. Get the hook-up, get the fish in and release it ASAP.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[Uncle Jesse]

Maybe I did not state my thoughts well. My thinking is the quickness with which you can land a fish depends as much upon the line strength as the weight of the rod. I would like to hear yeas and nays on that thought.

[ducksterman]

I think I agree with that, UJ. It seems to me the strength of the tippet dictates how aggressive I am when playing the fish...and of course the size/strength of the fish.

[whatfly]

Of course leader and tippet line matter, just as rod weight matters. All else being equal, heavier the rod and/or heavier the tippet/leader, the more pressure you can put on the fish. There are those who believe that the lighter rod is better, but what it comes down to is they prefer the fight, and there really is not point in an "intelligent" discussion because they've already made up their mind. Same is true for the tippet/leader debate, although here they debate is clouded by the desire to actually catch a fish, as opposed to just landing one. One distinction is if you use too light a leader/tippet, the fish can get away, whereas if you use too light a rod, you increase the fatality rate of the catch. Neither are defensible points IMHO, but some like to make the distinction. It really is just a matter of physics, but many would rather reduce it to subjective terms to justify their own preferences. This is one of those really odd sort of debates where reason rarely ever wins...

[Panman]

While I agree with Duckster & UJ that the strength of the tippet is the key factor in fighting the fish. I also believe that regardless of the weight of the tippet if the rod is a light weight job the angler has a tendency to prolong the battle, perhaps with an unconscious feeling that horsing the fish will cause damage to the equipment or breakage of the tippet.

[Bobinmich]

As a general rule, you should use as heavy (or strong) a leader as you can without spooking the fish or impairing the action of the fly. I.e. it would be unwise to use a 1 X leader on a #18 trico. But it would be wise to use that size for browns at night on a #2 muddler. There is a subset of anglers that prefer to use overly light tackle on fish for a plethora of reasons but normally fishermen size their tippets to work well with the fly they are fishing and the water type and whether the fish are leader shy. That being said, the size of the fly dictates the size of the tippet and the size of the flyline and then the size of the rod - in that order. But that is in a perfect world.

Now how big a rod you need to fight a fish with is a much more complex matter. Most people don't know that a normal 5X leader will break a 6 wt. rod if you candycane it. The angle of the rod butt to the fish is a very important factor when playing a fish. If you point the rod straight at the fish you can apply force up to the limit of the line but you can't absorb any shock if the fish does something drastic. It you were to put the butt at 90 degrees to the fish, you can apply far less force on the tippet (short of breaking the rod) but you can absorb a lot of shock from violent movements at the other end of the line. Most anglers playing big fish will use that angle to adjust their rod characteristics without even knowing they are doing it.

Now dry fly fishing, I would agree that there isn't mich difference in the fish landing capability between a 3 and a 6 wt. with normal dry fly tippets. Maybe a little, but not much. Both will allow you to go to the limit of the tippet by just adjusting your rod angle. But you put a 20 pound fresh run salmon or a 70 pound tarpon with a 15 or 20 pount tippet on that 3 weight and you will learn why people use 8 through 12 weight rods for that sort of thing. The heavier rods and heavier tippets allow you to put more force on the fish while still maintaining some bend in the rod for absorbing shock when they decide to do a quick change in the direction thing.

I use a 3 or 4 weight on small creeks because I don't need distance and they are fun to fish with. I'll use a 6 if I am planning on fishing on into the dark and switching over for big brownd. I use a seven on steelhead. I use an 8 on salmon and an 8 or nine on snook or reds. The bigger rod for snook is mainly because you have to throw a 2/0 EP out there nearly 80 feet just to keep from spooking them with the boat. I'll use a 6 on the beach for the same fish where you are fishg to them right in front of you.

My $.02

Bob

[Gemrod]

It all doesn't matter. It is all about the tippet. You will actually probably bring to net more fish with the lighter rod. Not breaking off the fish with a hook in him. And you CAN land the fish just as fast.

The tippet is going to break no matter which rod you use...if you get to the break point of that material. I do not use an extra light rod to fish for trout. But I can put just as much pressure on a 6x tippet with a 3wt as you can with a 6wt. And THAT pressure will break the tippet at some point.

I do not see how you can put more pressure on the same tippet material and bring to net a fish faster with a bigger rod.....than...
using the same tippet with a smaller rod. When the tippet is 3lb tippet and gets to its break point it will break. And it doesn't matter if it's a broomstick or a willow switch.

[Cold]

The weakest link determines how hard you can pull on the fish. Usually, that is the tippet. If it isn't, then you're not set up correctly.

When the tippet is your weakest link, the rod is a shock absorber, not a hauler. Two five weights, one glass and one super-fast graphite will both be able to land all of the same fish in the same amount of time, if used properly. For that matter, as long as your tippet is the weak link, any two rods will be able to bring fish to hand in the same amount of time, provided you know how to use the shock absorber in your hand.

[tailingloop]

...I do not see how you can put more pressure on the same tippet material and bring to net a fish faster with a bigger rod...

For the most part, the heavier the rod, the greater the load the rod can handle. Thus you can pull harder with a heavier rod than a lighter one. The difference isn't as great when comparing how you might pull on a 3lb trout with 5x tippet on a 3wt vs 5wt rod. When pulling on a 25lb yellowfin tuna with 20lb tippet and a 10 vs 12wt rod the difference is significant and a competent angler will bring that 25lb fish to the boat faster with the heavier rods. If you are going to release that fish it is probably better to whip it in 10-15 minutes with the 12 wt than 25-30 minutes with the 10wt.

You can always point the rod right at the fish and take the rod out of the equation, but at some point you need to put a bend in the rod. The heavier rod will generally allow you to pull harder. If you can pull hard enough to break the tippet with both rods then a skilled angler should be able to bring a fish to hand as quickly with either rod under most conditions.