PC vs. Apple ?

[Lotech]

I've been a PC user since day one, 1998. My first was Windows 98. I eventually wound up using XP and I liked it lots. Now I'm using Windows Vista. All this time, I've been hearing how Apple users love what they use and that they would never go back to PC. My question here is; "Why?" What does Apple do that the PC format can't do, that makes it so much more user friendly? Just askin'.

[kbproctor]

I am a Mac convert. I used PCs in every configuration there ever was and have used every version of Windows from the very first. As a network administrator over networks large and small, I have been in charge of PCs running Windows, Novell Netware, and Linux as well as Macs. The last network I was in charge of was predominately Mac.

When I started with this last outfit, I had absolutely NO Mac experience and did not really want any. However, within a short time, I was hooked. The Macs gave me so much less grief than PCs and made me look very smart. The reason I had fewer problems was two-fold. First, the Mac OS X is very stable. This is because Macs all use basically the same hardware. The OS simply does not have to try to make so much different hardware compatible. Secondly, The stuff you need access to is readily available, but the guts of the OS that you don't want folks messing with is hidden from the average user. I can get to it and utilize the deepest stuff, but the average guy just doesn't see it to mess with it and hose his/her machine up.

The biggest adjustment I had to make was that I kept trying to make things as difficult to do on my Mac as it was to do on a PC. Many of these things have since been corrected in Windows, but many, many things that took 4-5 clicks to accomplish in Windows were simply drag & drop on a Mac. Want to zip up a folder? In Windows, you open something like Winzip and then add the files and finally tell it to compress. On a Mac, you simply drag the folder you want to compress to the icon for Stuffit and drop. Give it a name when asked and you are done. That is just one example. There are many others. They are more intuitive. They come with most of the software you will need, but for true compatibility with PC friends, you will need to purchase MS Office for the Mac. Then you have about 99% of what the average person needs. You can create a PDF from any document by simply printing it as a PDF. Very simple.

There is a wide range of software available and more is coming every day. You can get the entire Adobe suite for your Mac including PhotoShop, Acrobat, etc. However, there is some software that there is not Mac equivalent for. My wife is a genealogy freak and there is no good software out there that I have found for the Mac. Some of the vendors I have dealt with for other aspects of my former field had proprietary software that was written for Windows only. There are ways to run this sofware on a Mac, but they are either pretty geeky or require loading Windows on your Mac. The later works pretty slick, but you open yourself back up to all the insecurities and problems of Windows to do it.

Now to the fabled immunity to viruses. Macs are not immune. They simply do not hold enough of the market to be a target for the cyber terrorists. Viruses are written for PCs because you can do more damage. I still run an anti virus program because I want to catch any PC viruses that come to me through email before I pass them on to an unsuspecting PC owning friend. There are hundreds of thousands of viruses in the wild for PCs, but only about 60 for Macs at the current time.

So, I find Macs to be more stable, secure, and user friendly. There is an adjustment and learning curve. There can be software issues, but those are very few. A Mac may or may not be for you. I like them.

If any of you wish to ask more questions, feel free to PM me. I will answer them to the best of my ability to help you decide if a Mac is for you or not.

[Wes]

it's a matter of personal preference. since windows 7 apple isn't more or less user friendly than apple. apple says osx is immune to virus, not true. there's new malware written everyday targeting mac. osx has a built in virus scanner, why? apple uses the same components as pc. apple is a marketing concept to extract premium price for everyday computer components. i used vista 64 bit and had no problems. went with windows 7 64 bit, much better and easier to use than vista. i've not spent much time on a mac but if i were to start from scratch i believe windows 7 would be more user friendly than mac osx.

[AlbaSurf]

Lotech,

For one thing they last longer and are much much more resistant to getting viruses. Also, all programs are have the same format - it's easy to learn to use new programs.I don't know how to describe it, it's just soother and a nicer experience using a mac. You don't have to fight with it to get it to do what you want. And it never just freezes and then shuts down or stops working. If a programs freezes you can always access the "force quit" menu. I guess the biggest thing with Macs is that all the components, hardware of the computer and the way it's meant to work, they are all designed, manufactured, and assembled by the same company. So they work together a hundred times better than PCs, where various parts are made by separate companies and so they just don't play together as nicely.

I had a PC for years. When it died, I bought a Mac and I will never go back to PC.

Oh, Plus if you do get a mac, get the applecare protection and support plan. it's wonderful! basically extends your warranty for 3 years and you get unlimited tech support by phone and you can make appointments at an apple store. And it is not just for if you have problems - if you are trying to figure out what a program does or how to do something specific, the support is for using the mac and making it do what you need it to do. It's so helpful and totally totally worth it! And since there is only one brand of macs everyone is on the same page when it comes to how to fix things. It's the best system with the lease hassle. No drama. I love Apple!

[Steve Molcsan]

Joe,

Can't add much to what has been said about how good the Apple platform is...
I switched four years ago with an apple mac book pro and desktop... No hassle and no more problems...

I use a program with the Apples called "Parallel" it allow the use of most windows based programs, I only have one
windows program that I like to use and is runs very well with the Apple..

[kbproctor]

Wes,

If there is a built-in virus scanner in the Mac OS, it's news to me. As I stated before, they are NOT immune. Saying any machine or OS is virus proof is like saying something is idiot proof. Someone will come up with a better idiot. UNIX is the hands down most secure OS out there and Mac OS X is based on a UNIX variant, BSD. At the core of the OS, it uses Unix type commands and has all of the same permissions levels as Unix. Being intimately familiar with both Windows and the Mac OS, I can tell you that the Mac OS is more secure.

Yes, Macs do use similar components to PCS, but if you look at the specs, the video chipsets are by one manufacturer across the board. Network chipsets, BIOS chipsets, and every other major component are the same way. Yes, you have faster and slower, more working memory and less, but the OS only has to work with a very limited set of components. The hardware is also designed to maximize performance where PC hardware is, by necessity, designed for the lowest cost. It works as well as it does because Apple subscribes to the KISS method. They keep things simple.

I can easily take care of a 100+ user Mac network and have time to goof off. The same network of PCs would require a second person to help fixing the myriad of little stuff that happens all the time. Now, what about all of the users that know just enough to make them a pain in the neck? Those folks can't get in there and "fix" a Mac and add to a network admin's woes.

I have been a network administrator for 20 years. Even with the higher cost of Mac machines, I can guarantee a higher return on investment with Macs than is even conceivable with PCs. Start with replacing machines, on a business level now, every 4 years instead of every two or even annually. Licensing costs are minuscule in comparison. Unlimited PERPETUAL users on a Mac XServer is a thousand bucks. That is forever until you upgrade the OS to the next major version. Microsoft licensing is outrageously expensive. The OS is outrageously expensive. The last major full install of OS X cost me $30. What does Windows 7 run these days? The hardware is more reliable because everything is designed to work together. The OS is more reliable, even though I can lock up a Mac when I get to really pushing it. It is less labor intensive and therefore less expensive to run. It is supported better. It is easier to support. Every flavor of Mac runs like every other flavor. Macs are just simpler all the way around.

Anything that Windows has done with Windows 7 to make it more user friendly, Macs were doing years ago. It is fine tuned and reliable. As was mentioned before, the programs all operate very much the same way. You will find similar controls in the same places. You do not have to perform a critical update every stinking time you turn it on and again before you turn it off.

Since you are not familiar with the Mac OS, by your own admission, please deffer to those that are. Since you, by your own admission, really are not that up on the Mac OS, you really don't know the differences.

[Wes]

ok, av isn't built in, it'd here:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...acedition.html

since mac users are in extreme minority and mac is great why aren't there more mac users?

[Cold]

You're also allowed to be a good-natured snob if you go Apple.

I've lost count of how many friends I know that give you the same arguments over and over about the innate superiority of Mac, but when you get to specifics, they have no idea other than they just like it better. If that's the case, fine, but just say that. In a way it's been a lot like fly fishing. Lots of friendly people, but also lots of snobs.

This thread has been one of the more informative ones I've seen, so good job.

As for me, Windows has never ever given me any grief that was its fault, so I continue to use XP Pro, though I am trying out Ubuntu as well.

I have very limited experience with Apple products and software via 2 iPods and iTunes, and those two have given me FAR more technical headaches, relatively speaking, than Windows ever has.

[kbproctor]

ok, av isn't built in, it'd here:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...acedition.html

since mac users are in extreme minority and mac is great why aren't there more mac users?

The AV software you highlight is not built in, but an available program for folks to download from Apple. They list all kinds of programs for you. Just part of what was mentioned earlier about support.

As far as the minority, I think it is explained by the higher initial purchase price. I will not argue that it is hard for folks to wrap themselves around the idea that an iMac starts at a grand and they can get a PC with the same features for half that. My contention is that spending that extra $500 is worth it due to the lack of hassle from the machine, software and support. The Genius Bar at an Apple Store is pretty darn cool. You can make an appointment online or in the store and walk in with your laptop or desktop and ask questions about just about anything and get and answer right then and there from a live person, for free.

Cold, I have noticed the same thing with iTunes on a PC. Due to the genealogy issue mentioned before, my wife has a PC laptop running XP Pro. I do spend a lot more time removing malware and fixing stuff on that laptop than I do on all of my Macs combined.

Specifics? OK. I like the aesthetics. An iMac is a sharp looking machine. I like the reliability. I have Macs that are over 10 years old that are still running strong. This laptop is a first generation Macbook with the Intel processor and much slower than the new ones, but still runs the latest version of the OS and does it well. The battery is the original and I still get 3 or 4 hours out of it operating wireless. The iMac is also a first generation Intel machine. I have upgraded the hard drives in both and maxed out the memory in both. The machines are 5+ years old and I am seeing no reason to upgrade them, yet. The OS is much less expensive to upgrade. The latest OS cost me $30 to upgrade. I could purchase a package for 5 machines for $99. Upgrade Windows on 5 machines for $99. It can't be done. I'm not asked for a serial number when I install the OS, either. I am not asked to update every time I start the machine. iTunes has been a bit annoying lately as it seems to need an update about once a week, but that is the worst of it. I don't have to worry about grandkids downloading stupid stuff to one of my machines. The malware written for PCs and packaged in the cutesy smileys and screen savers won't run on a Mac. The grandkids don't need any help to operate the computers as they use Macs in school. I like that most of the software I need is included. There is a wide array of software that just comes with the OS. The two packages I have had to fork out for are Microsoft Office at $130 for a license for 3 machines and Adobe Acrobat at about a c-note. Everything else I need I have found free. I can run the Guide spacing programs and RodDNA on my Macs and can run most Windows only software through a program called Wine, which is free but on the geeky side to set up.

Those are a few of the specifics for me. There are many more. I am not saying that Macs are for everyone. They are not. Wes has his mind made up that he is not going to like a Mac. Unless he was forced to use a Mac for the job or something for long enough to get really familiar with it, he probably never would like a Mac. That's OK. I didn't think I would like them, either, but have changed my mind.

One last specific. I do enjoy the ability to be a Mac snob and know what I am talking about.

[Normand]

i happen to work at a major defense contractor and use a pc all day long. it never breaks down or freezes or gets infected. i'll be willing to bet it gets bombarded every day by outsiders that want to do some damage. i guess we have a very good IT department that makes sure it doesnt happen.

i also have a pc (windows xp) and a laptop (windows 7) at home, and with proper care and protection, they to have not broken down or froze up or gotten infected (as of yet).

i am comfortable using both apple computers and pc's. my ipod touch works seemlessly with my pc and is simple to use.

to me its simply a personal preference on what one person wants to use and to not having be intimidated by anybody to use what they use.