Is it flyfishing or jigging?

[CoachBob]

Just a little rant here.
Anyone who's read my articles knows I'm no purist but...

Last time I brought this topic up (in another Forum) you would have thought I stole someone's horse, shot their dog and assaulted their sister (or is it the other way around). Anyway, I recently received a mag that praised the French team's new approach to Czech nymphing -- using a twisted mono strike indicator of sorts. It brought back a pet peeve of mine dealing with the whole subject of Czech nymphing and such.
Is it really fly fishing?
I don't think so.
What differentiates fly fishing from other forms of fishing is that the weight is in the line and the lure is very light. Consequently, to fly fish there really must be a casting aspect.
If you can perform the same task as well, or maybe better, with a 12 foot jigging pole...well, that technique just shouldn't be allowed in a fly fishing contest.

Now please understand. If you want to Czech nymph and outfish everyone else on the water -- because you probably will -- be my guest. Just don't tell me you are fly fishing.

Suppose I went to a "Fly Fishing Only" water and brought that jigging pole. I'm standing across the stream from someone who is Czech nymphing. Why is he allowed to stay and I have to leave? Because he had fly line he never uses?

Whataya think?

[JohnScott]

.... I was thinking about what defines fly fishing from a very different point of view a couple days ago.

I was thinking that it is entirely possible to present a fly ( however broadly or narrowly one wants to define that term as it is used in "fly fishing" ) with only a furled leader and tippet, if your technique is good.

If I went out to catch a fish without a fly rod of any kind, and without a fly line of any kind, and I presented a fly by hand using only a furled leader and tippet onto / into whatever water my prey was lurking, would I be fly fishing ??

To my way of thinking, the answer is YES.

So I guess my answer to your question, Bob, is if there is a fly at the end of the tippet, it's fly fishing, regardless what the tippet is attached to and what means are used to present the fly to the fish.

It seems to me that if you were in fact fishing a fly with that "jigging pole" you would have as much right to be fishing that stream as the guy using the Czech nymphing technique. And, if you were fishing a jig with that pole, you should be kicked off the "Fly Fishing Only" water.

John

P.S. Shall we sweeten / stir the pot by mentioning Tenkara ??

[texfly]

Don't say it John , the last time
the "T" word came up , the thread
got shut down. I really do like your
view on the subject of how fly
fishing is defined. I think if the
weight of the line is what deliver's
the near weightless fly , it must
be fly fishing.

[joe cool]

I thought the Tenkara discussion was a good one. I got to see how different people define the sport. My take was the line being what casts the fly. Fly being anything tied to a hook, synthetic or natural, as long as it stays light enough for the line to be doing the casting. If you were just going to be Czech nymphing the entire day, a jigging pole would work as well, but if there is one point in the day when you lay out the cast, it's fly fishing. There are times I "dap" or just drop a fly into a tight spot without a cast, sometimes with only the leader out the tip, so am I not fly fishing for that fish, but if I lay out 10 feet of line to hit the next spot I am?

As usual, I just like to provide different perspectives to make people think about things more and in a different way. In reality, everyone has their own definition of the sport, and it doesn't bother me one bit if anyone decided I'm not a fly fisherman because I don't do it their way. The only place it matters are in restricted waters and there it just depends on how the law spells it out. I think if the weight of the line does the casting and what's attached to the hook was all tied and wrapped on then it's fly fishing. Tenkara and Czech nymphing are iffy but I'd say if they are both using flies it's close enough to fly fishing for me to not care, even if the weight of the line never does any work. I can't discount them because then every time I lowered a fly into a hole or swam a fly around the bank without casting I wouldn't be fly fishing at that moment. I don't think fishing a fly on a spinning rod under a bubble or behind a couple split shot is fly fishing though. Something else's weight does the casting so it's out to me. The line gets blurred for me if you're using a fly and not casting it. Scent on flies also matters to some. Not to me, but a thread about scents got many riled up about it not being fly fishing once the scent touched the fly. The great thing is we can all talk about it and be civil and hear eveyone's point of view. Maybe our minds will be changed, maybe it will just solidify our position, but talking about the sport is why we're all here right?

[jeffnles1]

It's all fishing. I don't see the big deal. 90% of the time, I use a fly rod, the rest I'm using spinning gear. There are days I just want to use a rooster tail, or toss a plastic worm along the bank. There are days I want to use a fly rod. There are days I dapple / jig with my fly rod. To me it's all fishing and it's all fun. Why tha arguments over symantics?

[clarkman23]

Why tha arguments over symantics?

what else are folks going to do when they're not out fishing?

[Marco]

Gents,
Fly fishing is NOT a contest where specific rules MUST be adhered to . Semantics do not a fly fisherman make or unmake. Lets get our collective noses out of the upturned positions and just call it fishing . i happen to do it MY way with absolutely NO regard to what YOU ( generic) think about or call it.

Mark
Currently in Kalifornia but.......................................

[Kerry Stratton]

Doesn't matter to me what the people here think fly fishing is. What the State of Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife does matter and here is what they have to say;

In “Fly Fishing Only” waters, an angler may
use only the following tackle: up to 2 flies,
each with a barbless single-point hook, not
to exceed ?

" from point to shank, and a

conventional fly line (other line may be used
for backing or leader if attached to at least
25 feet of fly line). Anglers may not use fixed
spool reels, bait, or weight attached to the
leader or line. Only knotless nets may be

used to land fish.

[Buddy Sanders]

I think that all of these definitions are pretty much useless.

If it's within the law and you believe you are fly fishing, then you are.

If my definition doesn't fit yours, that's fine.

If your definition doesn't fit mine, that's okay too.

We don't NEED a definition, in my never to be humble opinion. We need folks to fly fish. The more the merrier. Broaden the boundaries, let more folks in. Make it more popular, get more people out there fishing.

Rods, poles, line, no line. Czech, Nigerian, Polish, English, or even Austrailian nymph fishing is just fine to me (Not the Irish kind though, they aren't welcome!!). I have friends that even fish those awful dry flies, and I still talk to them. I've been known to assoiciate with people that actually LIKE fishing with old fashioned, out of date, heavy fly rods made from a kind of grass that grows in China.

I know a fellow that always fishes with the same fly....but he changes rods and lines all the time. The best fly fisherman I ever saw made so few casts with his actual fly line that it had rotted and cracked on the reel and he never even noticed..and he was better fisherman than all of us, probably all of us combined.

I've even used bait on a hook at the end of my tippet, both real eggs and worms, and I used a fly rod and line to do so....

I say its fly fishing.

Nana Nana Na Na!!!

Ford!!!!

Wait, I drive a GMC...JIMMY!!

Buddy

[modocdan]

The way I see it it's simple...... You got "fishin" ..................and you got "ain't fishin' " I been fishin all my life, and I fish lots of ways.
I truly love fly fishin the best, but as long as it's fishin, and it's legal........I'm in !!!!
Kerry, and Mark, and Jeff, already said the rest......
.................................................. ...............................ModocDan
Oh, and I drive a Chevy have done so since I started drivin' ......Buy American ! .YeeHaw!