Foul hooking-catch and release?

[Buddy Sanders]

In the thread on the Moffit Angling System, The following was posted by MaoDiver:

"...I catch the fish in the mouth, not outside of it, when I do as well. If the fish isn't hooked inside out, then it is a foul hook, and the fish should be released, at least for me."

Snagging, to me, means using a hook or weighted hook without attraction and jerking on it to impale the fish and then bring it. I don't like the practice, even when it's legal, for gamefish of any kind. That's not what I'm talking about here.

I've always believed that 'foul hooking' was the inadvertant hooking of the fish someplace besides the mouth area. I've always believe that these fish 'don't count' and when I used to tournament fish, they did not count according to the rules.

But, I always tried to land them. Occasionally, I'll accidentally hook a fish near the tail. They fight really hard that way, but so far all have been released unharmed.

And that brings up the questions I have about it. I now release the vast majority of fish I catch.

So:

Is snagging a fish inadvertantly more harmful to the fish than hooking it inside the mouth? Given that you are going to bring the fish to hand and then release it?

If you intentionally set out to hook a fish outside the oral cavity because you believe it is less stressful to the fish, as the Moffit System claims, is that a 'bad' thing? I'm not looking for the 'legal or 'illegal' here, but more does it harm the fish being hooked and fought that way?

Does it really matter 'where' you hook a fish if you are going to release it? Even if you foul hook a fish, it still struck the fly, right?

What do you guys think?

Buddy

[Cold]

The reason snagging is more harmful to the fish, aside from wounding and health issues, is that when you cant steer the fish by the nose, you cant wear it out quickly and bring it to hand for a release. They fight harder because you cant "steer" them, and the whole time, lactic acid is building up in their muscles.

The debate will rage on forever, but, for me, you dress a fly, on a hook, to get a fish to eat it. End of story. The moffitt system, to me, is nothing more than a system for getting the line into an advantageous position for snagging. From where I sit as well, the fact that their site has devoted so much time and effort into convincing everyone that its okay is a somewhat telling fact.

That isn't to say i'll look unfavorably on any person using the method, but you wont find me doing it.

EDIT: To me, the difference between "snagging" and "foul-hooking" lies in intent.

[branhap]

Well in tourney fishing, if you foul hook a fish while sight fishing, it has to be released.

However, if you foul hook a fish (say on a deep running crank bait) you can keep it for your bag.

Since I took up fly fishing i have foul hooked one fish. I was using a tandem rig, dryand dropper. He came up for the dry decided against it, and then hooked himself on the stomach with my dropper. Of any place to hook a fish, this was one of the easiest to bring in, as any pressure on the line would take him on his side and he would just stop swimming. I was really confused how he was acting until he was in hand.

[JohnScott]

.... to foul hook a whitefish.

Just a reminder, for myself, that when fly fishing, the difference between the fish eating the fly and the fly eating the fish is a matter of nanoseconds and happenstance.

On the other hand, if you do ANYTHING wrong, the chances of catching a fish, fair or foul hooked, go down dramatically.

John

[Wm1]

Like branhap, I occasionally foul hook a trout when fishing a tandem rig. I catch and carefully release all of my fish. Every fish that I have caught this way does not seem to be hurt any more than lip hooking, except possibly a little more tired and stressed. This is because it is a little harder to bring them to hand as quickly. All seem to revive OK; just may take a few seconds longer.
All that said; I do not like to hook them this way.
The way that I assume this happens is the fish takes a swipe at the lead fly and misses it.
On another note, concerning catch and release, I hardly ever remove the fish from the water, but this is usually not possible if the fish is hooked somewhere other than the lip or jaw.
And, while I am on the subject, I recommend always use barbless hooks if catching and releasing.
Just my 3 cents worth.
Wm

[maodiver]

The intent of my reply was to throw my feelings in to the ring regarding people who intentionally fish to foul hook outside the mouth. I have foul hooked a few fish, in the mouth and otherwise, but to try to catch fish without caring if the fish takes the bait (incl. lure, fly, worm, whatever) is wrong. Not giving the fish an even break is wrong. It's called fair catch for a reason