straight eye vs down eye

[quivira kid]

Is there much difference in the action of a wet fly (streamer, wet, soft hackle, nymph) with a straight eye versus down eye? For example, like a Mustad 3366 and a 3399.

Zac

[bdesavage]

Zac,
That is like asking what is the "Best Vice"(& yes I meant to spell it like that).
There are All kind's of opinions and studies on it.
I prefer striaght eye hook's... Of course I'm addicited to tying 26-32 Parachutes.
Or as several of My Friends say..."Your a Sick, Sick man DeSavage"

[Valhalla 1]

I've wondered that, too, and I'm looking forward to reading some thoughts on this. Also on eye up.

Now "Best Vice...", well that could be a very interesting thread on it's own.

[rookie]

I believe it would all depend on the degree of angle from the rod tip to the eye of the hook. In other words, holding rod high or holding rod low. Just my opinion.

[Jeff Clough]

I hear tell that it matters, but not as much as the knot you use to tie on the fly (open loops for streamers/wigglers, etc.). With the tiny mass of most flies, I can easily believe that even the small offset of down-eye versus straight-eye would result in different behavior, but I do question how much difference it will make when you add the currents tossing the fly around into the equation.

[Wes]

probably depends on how the tippet to fly connection is made. for up and down eyed hooks a knot that positions the tippet straight thru the hook eye in line with the hook shank will have a different effect than a loop or direct connection to the hook eye. a loop will be yet different. perhaps the fly action isn't affected as much as is the hooking ability. personally i don't think the fish will make a decision to strike according to attachment method.

[Buddy Sanders]

It's all about angles.

Assuming that you use a knot that either grips the hook eye or a loop knot, then:

It will make a diference in the how the fly is pulled through the water. It will make a difference on how the force of a hookset is applied to the hook point. It will make a difference in how the fly rides in the water.

Will that difference be obvious or detrimental to your fishing? Who knows? All the differences (except one) will be slight to the point of likely irrelevance. But, if you believe it matters, then it probably does.

The only easily obvious difference between hook eye location will be it's effect on how the fly rides in the water. And this requires a couple of dressing details to fall in line before it occurs. If, in tying the fly, the weight of the dressing above the place on the hook eye where the line exerts it's force weighs more than the portion of the hook bend and point that hangs below that point, then a down eye hook will cause the fly to ride upside down. This is primarily because the point of pull on the fly is also below the hook shank. This puts the hook shank's weight into the equation, making it more likely for the hook to flip in the water. Not always a bad thing. I like many of my flies to ride hook point up, less snags and I like hooking fish in the top of the lip.

Also, as you look at the angle of the hook eye, you'd think that the line would pull up on an up eyed hook, down on a down eye hook, and straight on a straight eye hook. That only applies if the line of pull is straight. Then, the angle of hook eye will act as minimal planing surface or lip, and have a very slight effect on which direction the fly moves. It would be hard to see this with a naked eye. Different shapes and materials in the fly's dressing would also effect this, probably more than the hook eye direction.

The direction of pull will always follow the line, unless you build into your fly some kind of lip, plane, or excentric to cause it to have it's own action. If the line is pulling from above the fly, the fly will go up when pulled, regardless of the hook eye angle. Same with down.

Again, any movement or action imparted to the fly itself by the hook eye angle will be really really slight.

It still matters, though, if you believe it does.

Buddy

[Ray Kunz]

Just adding a different viewpoint to what Buddy Sanders has said we might want to consider why the hook eyes were turned up, straight or turned down in the first place. I do not claim to be an expert here but history seems to indicate that turned-down and turned-up eyes addressed tying a gut snell to the hook shank with the snell being carried straight forward through the eye. Even earlier, hooks had no eyes where the gut was lashed directly to the hook shank.
With the development of plastic for tippets in the mid 1900s the bent eyes were not neede any more. My discussion with a hook manufacturer several years ago confirmed this and it was added that the up and down bent eyes were only continued because fly tiers and users traditionally expected them.
Many tiers find tying with straight eye hooks makes it easier to finish off a fly head. (including trimming Muddlers)
Straight and turned -up eyes on very small hooks were preferred because they did not further reduce the small hook gap.

[JohnScott]

.... on this one. To quote from his post "It still matters, though, if you believe it does."

I don't believe it does, so it doesn't.

John

[Panman]

I agree with those who say it doesn't matter unless you want it to. Most of the flies I tie on Mustad hooks are with either a 3366 or a 3399 and I can't tell the difference and the fish don't seem to have a preference. The only thing I can add is that if I am tying a bead head I prefer the 3366 just because it looks better.

Tim