Dry fly tailing question

[quivira kid]

I will preface this by saying I haven't tied but about 2 "standard type" dry flies. Most of what I've done to this point has involved foam.

I bought a "100's pack" of good quality saddle feathers to tie some Red Quills with. However, it looks like I will need feather fibers longer than what the saddle hackles have on them to tie a respectable tail. Is it permissible to use hen hackle on the tail, or is that a big no no as it wouldn't be as stiff as rooster hackle?

I'm trying to broaden my horizons, so sorry for the "dumb question"! I'll go back to foam hoppers and wet flies shortly, I promise. *G*

Thanks in advance for the advice!
Zac

[rainbowchaser]

Hen hackle will not make good tails as it is softer and webbier than good cock hackle. For red quills consider substituting brown mink guard hairs or microfippets. To get tailing hackle you will need to buy a neck or a saddle from a breeder who's saddles still consist mostly of size 12 and up hackles.

[TyroneFly]

Give it a try. I use Whiting Farms Coq de Leon feathers for tailing materials as well as JV hens.

[Gandolf]

Hi Zac,

Like the others mentioned, you want stiff dry fly type feather barbules to support the weight of the fly. You do not want it to be webby, as webby absorbs water. The rooster hackle of good dry fly quality has almost no web, and it is stiff so it will support the weight of the fly.

The generic hen hackle is soft, not stiff, and the stuff is webby and will thus absorb water. In short generic hen make very poor dry fly tailing.

The best dry fly tailing used to come from spade hackle feathers which were found on the sides of dry fly capes. I have some older Keough capes that have excellent spade hackle on them, and as such I will keep them even when the good hackle is gone, except for the spade hackle.

These spade hackle feathers had long, straight, stiff, and web free barbules, which were ideal for tailing.

Unfortunately, in their efforts to improve the quality of capes by selective breeding, the genetic breeders have almost completely bred out the spade hackle, and most of my capes have none present at all. It is very difficult to find any on many modern capes.

Because of the difficulty of finding good tailing, Whiting imported some of the Coq de Leon roosters from Spain, and now breeds them and sells the hackle. I have seen some that was superb tailing. The Coq de Leon roosters are bred for hackle.

The old Catskil type patterns used spade hackle tailing. However, this type of tailing does have some disadvantages, the big one being that it does float a dry fly in rough water very well.

To solve the floating problem, famous fly tyer/fisherman Lee Wulff came up with better floating flies. To do this he went with various other tailing (and wings) types, one of which you should have great access to. That one was to use bucktail for tailing. (Do a search on the net for the the "Gray Wulff", which uses whitetail buck tail for wings and tailing.)

Other commonly used tailing for Wulffs includes elk hair, moose, and whitetail deer hair. On a white tail, the best hair for tailing and winging hair comes from the center of the back.

Being a hunter in Kansas you should have good access to white tail hide (again for winging or tailing you want a chunk of hide from the center of the back), and too, white tail buck tails make good tailing on Wulffs, if available in the right color.

In short you should have a supply of tailing locally in Kansas.

I tie a Catskill syle fly every now and then because they are fun to tie, and frankly no dry fly looks classier to my eye than a nicely tied Catskill dry fly such as a light Cahill or a classic hair wing streamer. They are also good at catching fish. However, I primarily fish fairly quick small creeks on those rare ocassions when I get to fish the Rockies, so I want a pattern that will primarily float well. That leaves the Catskills out, and I primarily fish Wulffs for mayfly patterns, and palmered varities of caddis flys and stone flys when fishing for hatches involving those insects.

Regards,

Gandolf

[DG]

QK, all those quackers and you can't find a suitable feather somewhere?

I use gadwall flank on a lot of darker mayflies as a tailing material. Hen wigeon is a redder feather for rustier flies. May not be the exact traditional material but I really really like flank feathers for tailing.

Let me know if all else fails, I have lots of hackle here I don't use much any more, can send you enough for a few hundred tails *S*.

[hap]

Gandolf
It is not that spade hackles have been bred out of chickens at all. It is simply that growers trim it off and either sell it seperately, or toss it. Denny keeps the spades on much of his hackles, at the top of the saddles and the bottom of the capes. Traditionally it comes from the shoulders (on the wings) but there is a continuous line across the rooster.
art

[NJTroutbum]

I use Coq-de-Leon hackle almost exclusively now. On some patterns I use various guard hairs, and moose body hair. But for smaller trout flies CDL is my choice. Dark Pardo is my choice.

[Al Beatty]

Hi Zac,

You've already gotten some great answers so let me offer another idea to add to them. Many tiers like to mix grizzly/brown fibers for some of their dry fly tails but getting good tailing material can be a real pain. Gretchen & I like to mix a few fox squirrel tail fibers with any grizzly hackle fibers (including hen). The squirrel supplies the support and the grizzly brings color to the mix. The fish (and many of your friends) will never know! Take care & ...

Tight Lines - Gretchen & Al Beatty
www.btsflyfishing.com

[Clay]

buy a pack of micro fibbets or you can even try a paint brush (yes, I hear the gasps from the crowd). The paint brush stuff isn't as nice but if you are tying some larger dry flies like size 10/12 they will do just fine. One of the reason to buy capes for people starting their collection is that you have access to a lot of different sizes of feathers and tailing materials.

[ScottP]

Charlie Collins http://collinshacklefarm.com sells Spade Hackle bags too; unless you're running a commercial setup in the far east, one bag will hold you for quite a while. Many of the feathers are not true spade hackle but scapular feathers, apparently, but even those provide outstanding tailing materials for dries up to size #6 easily.

Regards,
Scott