Bad Vise?????????

[Eric-WD]

I do not want this post hijacked, I am fighting the tendency for posts such as this to be side tracked for a number of reasons.

First often posts such as this one with in a few posts its hijacked by people not answering the question but expressing an opinion not asked for and not wanted. If the person who asked the question wants more info he can ask again. (and yes I have been guilty of this)

Second I am a believer that there is a tendency in Fly tying along with most things for people to become Equipment Junkies trying to make up for lack of practice and skill with the wrong belief that a new vise, bobbin etc will make them a better tier.

Third no mater how much money a person has, I believe for 99% of the people out there they should start out tying with a basic vise. IE an older model A, griffen 1a or 2a etc. then after six months of tying or so move up when they have the knowledge to know what they need and want they can then retire the basic vise to sit on a shelf, add it to a field kit, or give it to another beginner to help them on there way.

Now I want to know if I can tell a friend etc who is just beginning to tie to go find a good basic vise for a little over $50 or if there is junk out there to beware of.

If you want to start a thread about High end vises costing over $350 more power to you. I will read the thread but wont be participating as I have never tied on one. I will also not come in and start hijacking the thread telling you why you should not buy a $350 vise as I A. Don't really care what you spend you money on and B. Believe that as long as you kids are fed and your housing bill is paid for you should do what makes you happy. if that is fishing with a dowel or a gatti or tying by holding you hooks in your fingers or using a high end vise.

Just my thoughts

Eric

[Eric-WD]

At the Northcoast Fly Fishers show in Cleveland, OH earlier this month Eric Austin (Just Old Flies section) demonstrated tying a married wing wet fly without a vise, very cool! Do you think if I gave him $50.00 he would come to my house and hold the hook for me while I tie a fly on it? He really gave a great presentation on tying old style wets with married wings.

LOL if I could get Eric Austin to come to my house to tie I would hold the hooks for him in order to have a front row seat and the privlidge of asking questions...

Eric

[eaustin]

Getting back to the topic. I guess I'm the only old-timer I know who actually hated the Thompson A I tied on a couple of years back, though I'm not sure I tied on an original, probably a knock off. My problem wasn't so much the jaws as I recall as much as it was the C-Clamp moving all over the place. Conditions weren't optimal either, motel room furniture. In the '60s I dreamed of owning a Thompson A, the vise I had back then was crap.

For me, a good vise has to hold the hook like rock. A multitude of vises fill that bill wonderfully. Of the lower priced vises I've owned I really like the Griffin 2A. It isn't especially "convenient", but built like a battleship and holds the hook very well when fiddled with enough. I still have it and use it from time to time. All the really cheap vises ($20 range)from my distant past have been thrown away, and rightly so.

I'm amazed at how many really good vises are out there in all price ranges. I think this thread points out that it is difficult to come up with a vise that's just no good at all in the over $50 price range. We can all argue about the niceties and ergonomics of the expensive vises, but it's hard to argue with the fact that all the mainline vises over $50 are pretty decent these days, and that's great.
Eric

[Jim Cramer]

You can't just ask which vises are are bad. The problem is one of quality control. Inexpensive products have less quality control than do expensive products as a general rule. You may have an inexpensive vise that works very well but another by the same maker could be junk.

[Greybeard]

Getting back to the topic. I guess I'm the only old-timer I know who actually hated the Thompson A I tied on a couple of years back, though I'm not sure I tied on an original, probably a knock off. My problem wasn't so much the jaws as I recall as much as it was the C-Clamp ...
Eric

Eric,

You're not the only person with less than stellar experiences with a Thompson Model A vise. My first real vise was a Thompson Model A that I bought in 1974 and Thompson was apparently having some QA problems at the time. There was a casting flaw in the jaw where a bit of metal was missing. It was right where you'd clamp the hook. As I recall there were not so many vise choices back then and while I should have looked for another Model A I bought that one knowing there was a problem. I'll attribute that stupidity to youthful enthusiasm. A few months of use later, stress caused a piece to break off the other side of the jaws. The vise was sort of usable but it didn't always hold a hook perfectly. I was a money poor grad student living in Pennsylvania at the time and fishing was my passion so I kept using it.

Some years after I became gainfully employed I ordered replacement jaws from Thompson and the new jaws were flawless and shaped a bit differently than my initial pair. Apparently their QA issues were fixed. Everything I bought was from the real Thompson vise company (still have the original red box <g> not that I'm a pack rat or anything). I tied with that as my primary vise until about 18 months ago when I got the uncontrollable urge to get a rotary vise. Like most of my "gotta have this" urges, I really didn't need a new vise, I just wanted to play with a new toy.

I can't say I ever had a problem with the old vise not clamping tightly to the table but at least my initial experiences with the Thompson Model A left a lot to be desired. Over the years I did pick up a second Model A with midge jaws, and I really did tie flies down to #28s - not that I ever succeeded catching a trout with such a small fly.

So, your not the only one with Thompson Model A problems but I'll opine that the design is excellent for what it is and I sure wouldn't challenge anyone who said more flies have been tied on it than all other vises combined.

Greybeard

[William Fitzgerald]

I keep seeing questions about vises such as in "is anyname a good vise?" my question is.....Is there a bad vise on the market that sells for more than $50? I know some of the really cheap ones are junk, and you can find some iffy ones for around $25. I'm not looking for better or worse list but can any one name one that wont do he primary function of a vise which is hold a hook in most sizes or falls apart after a few weeks of tying? ETC.

Eric

Yes ERIC some do highjack a post --they never read the beginning. I feel if you want a good vice for a little over $50 you should buy from a known manufacture. I teach and Griffin has been my choice.Seven 2As for the kids and two others for my use. One non rotary and a full rotary. If the kids cant break them no one can. American made lifetime guarentee and help a 800 number away. Bill

[Sully]

Eric,

You're not the only person with less than stellar experiences with a Thompson Model A vise. My first real vise was a Thompson Model A that I bought in 1974 and Thompson was apparently having some QA problems at the time. There was a casting flaw in the jaw where a bit of metal was missing. It was right where you'd clamp the hook. As I recall there were not so many vise choices back then and while I should have looked for another Model A I bought that one knowing there was a problem. I'll attribute that stupidity to youthful enthusiasm. A few months of use later, stress caused a piece to break off the other side of the jaws. The vise was sort of usable but it didn't always hold a hook perfectly. I was a money poor grad student living in Pennsylvania at the time and fishing was my passion so I kept using it.

Some years after I became gainfully employed I ordered replacement jaws from Thompson and the new jaws were flawless and shaped a bit differently than my initial pair. Apparently their QA issues were fixed. Everything I bought was from the real Thompson vise company (still have the original red box <g> not that I'm a pack rat or anything). I tied with that as my primary vise until about 18 months ago when I got the uncontrollable urge to get a rotary vise. Like most of my "gotta have this" urges, I really didn't need a new vise, I just wanted to play with a new toy.

I can't say I ever had a problem with the old vise not clamping tightly to the table but at least my initial experiences with the Thompson Model A left a lot to be desired. Over the years I did pick up a second Model A with midge jaws, and I really did tie flies down to #28s - not that I ever succeeded catching a trout with such a small fly.

So, your not the only one with Thompson Model A problems but I'll opine that the design is excellent for what it is and I sure wouldn't challenge anyone who said more flies have been tied on it than all other vises combined.

Greybeard

Both of my Thompsons ( 1 model A and 1 model 360 SLT) have fully machined jaws!

[Sully]

Yes ERIC some do highjack a post --they never read the beginning. I feel if you want a good vice for a little over $50 you should buy from a known manufacture. I teach and Griffin has been my choice.Seven 2As for the kids and two others for my use. One non rotary and a full rotary. If the kids cant break them no one can. American made lifetime guarentee and help a 800 number away. Bill

All Thompson Vises and Thompson Ceramic Spring Wire bobbins are unconditionally guaranteed against defects or breakage when used according to the manufacturer's instructions, from the original purchase date and for the lifetime of the original registered purchaser.

[Eric-WD]

Thanks for a great thread to everyone who participated, I have enjoyed reading your replies. And I think that what I thought of originally is brought out, that there really isn't a lot of junk out there in the 50 plus range and that we as tiers have a great selection of vises should we need one.

Eric

[Eric-WD]

Yes, I know of one. The Terra Silverado. I bought one for niece and brought it with me on her birthday to teach her how to tie. The vise lasted exactly 12 flies before the soft steel pin holding the cam lever on bent to the point of being unable to hold a hook. I was extremely embarrassed, so I bought her a Griffin 2A, and that has been outstanding.

Esquire, I missed your posting in the crush, sorry about not recognizing it. I agree about the Griffin 2A my second vise was a 2A I bought it for about 25 as it was one that had been a display model, had to pick up an O ring for it. It is a great little vise.

The Terra Silverado, retails at this point for under our $50 limit, but it is close enough to count and other reviews that I found agree with your opinion of this vise.

Thanks for your input to this thread

Eric