thread, bobbin, and head cement?

[fishin' fool]

Before I get directed to Al Campbell's writings, I have and am rereading his tuuff on this site. These are questions that so far haven't been answered in what I've found.

Okay, I've been doing some reading, and some more reading. So far I have come up with a few speecific questions. the first set revolves around thread. I plan on tying nothing smaller than an 18 to start, and these flies could vary from streamers to dries. What type and size of thread should I get to start off with a small selection? How about colors? Is one brand better than another? My next set of questions have to do with head cement and dubbing wax. What kind of head cement should I get and is there anything else I should be considering that might fit into the head cement or glue category? What is dubbing wax and do I need it? My last questions cncern bobbins. I'm assuming that the ceramic are the best. Is this correct? From what I've read, I should get more than one. Are there different sizes to look for or do they make different ones for different things?

Thanks for the help,
Jeff

[Betty Hiner]

Can't, but should, resist ....

Thread; 6/0 or 8/0.
Colors; Black, brown, taupe ... OK, so that's shoe colors, but they go with anything! Still, stay with black, brown and a tannish, taupe-y color, maybe throw in an olive, and you'll be able to tie 90% of the flies you want ... maybe more. And to start with, technique beats color all to pieces. The fish don't care.
Head cement; get a water based. The smell won't drive you to distraction.
Dubbing wax; probably won't need it. (well! he probably won't!) use spit. Not much, just a little. When you need it for smattering little tifts of dubbing to the thread (in the directions it's called "sparse"), use some Gehrke's Fly-Maker's wax. Good stuff. Still have 99.99% of the one I started with 11 years ago.

[kbproctor]

You can be certain Parnelli will chime in with his thread article.

I think there are as many answers to your questions as there are tiers.

My preferences are:

Danville's Flymaster 6/0 or 70 Denier (same thing) in white, black, and olive. Other colors as necessary.

A good water based head cement, and Sally Hanson's Hard As Nails. Get some acetone to thin the Hard as Nails with, too. I have 2 bottles, one I keep thin for penetration of the thread and the other I let thicken for a smooth glossy finish.

I don't use dubbing wax most of the time. The dubbing will usually stick to the thread just fine if you kind of twist it on.

I have a fist full of bobbins. I use the non-ceramic ones for larger threads, but the ceramic bobbins for my white and black threads. I tie almost all of my flies startng with white thread and then switch to black just before the hackle gets tied in. Get what feels comfortable in your hand.

[sagefisher]

Jeff,

You will get a really wide variety of answers to your questions. None are absolutely right and none are absolutely wrong, that is the great thing about fly tying, you have a very wide choice of items to tie with.

Regarding head cement, many years ago I started using clear fingernail polish. Works great and won't harden up (just keep the cap on it). For my saltwater flies I do buy an actual head cement called Hard As Hull. If you are going to be doing some large saltwater streamers and even fresh water ones, sometimes you will need to use an epoxy to finish off the head area.

I prefer to tie with a size 6/0 thread for most my flies and I go down to an 8/0 for really small flies but it is easy to break. I use the heavy 3/0 on many of my saltwater flies and larger streamers. I prefer to use Uni Thread for most of my flies. You will need black for sure, plus brown, gray, green, tan, yea, a lot of neat colors out there. Just figure out what type and color of flies you plan on typing and start with those colors.

Most threads are pre-waxed but I still use dubbing wax when I am going to do some dubbing on many of my flies. I have both Wapsi Dubbing Wax and some bees wax. I prefer to use dubbing wax on my dubbing loop so it holds the loose material better. You can do without it, but I was taught to use it so I do. Otherwise, just for normal tying of flies you won?t need to use any wax.

Ceramic bobbins are the best choice but depending upon how many flies you are going to tie you can easily start off with an inexpensive wishbone style metal bobbin. As you get into tying you will buy some ceramic ones and then you can use your metal one for spools of wire and such. That is what I do. Just start off with a 4 inch bobbin, there is no need to go larger and you could go down to a 3 inch bobbin but the average one is 4 inches.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[Steven]

Before I get directed to Al Campbell's writings, I have and am rereading his tuuff on this site. These are questions that so far haven't been answered in what I've found.

Okay, I've been doing some reading, and some more reading. So far I have come up with a few speecific questions. the first set revolves around thread. I plan on tying nothing smaller than an 18 to start, and these flies could vary from streamers to dries. What type and size of thread should I get to start off with a small selection? How about colors? Is one brand better than another? My next set of questions have to do with head cement and dubbing wax. What kind of head cement should I get and is there anything else I should be considering that might fit into the head cement or glue category? What is dubbing wax and do I need it? My last questions cncern bobbins. I'm assuming that the ceramic are the best. Is this correct? From what I've read, I should get more than one. Are there different sizes to look for or do they make different ones for different things?

Thanks for the help,
Jeff

OK, here's my best effort at this.

Thread: Flytying thread has historically been measured in "oughts" - absolutely no idea why. Oughts work like hooks, the higher the number the smaller the thread. So 8/0 (pronounced eight-ought) is generally smaller than 6/0. 10/0 is generally smaller than 8/0. I say generally, because, like hooks, different manufacturers define sizes differently.

Some manufacturer's are moving towards denier, which is a measurement of mass. The lower the denier, the smaller the thread. Roughly speaking, 70 denier is roughly the same as 8/0. 140 denier is roughly the same as 6/0.

I generally use Uni-thread products, it's what's at the local fly shop. You'll probably be able to get by with 8/0 and 6/0, initially.

Colors - probably white, olive, tan, brown, black, yellow. Heaven knows what else. Or...
Do what the Dette's did (you'll learn about them). Only use white and color the heads with waterproof markers.

Everybody has their favorite head cement and wax.
For head cement, I go to Walgreen's and pick up a bottle of Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails (clear). You'll find that flytying means staying in touch with your feminine side.

I use wax for some hard to dub synthetics. I'm partial to Loon's Low-Tack Swax

Go with ceramic bobbins. One size generally fits all.

[kbproctor]

You'll find that flytying means staying in touch with your feminine side.

A safety note:

Do NOT appropriate the clear nail polish from your wife. Nope, wouldn't do that ever again.

[Jeff Clough]

I'll second (third?) the water based head cement. I use an Orvis-branded concoction that works very well, but anything that thins/cleans up with water will probably work just as well.

The main benefit here is when (WHEN) you spill the cement all over your desk and materials, you can clean everything up very easily. The lack of fumes is also great, especially if your tying area isn't well ventilated.

[Steven]

A safety note:

Do NOT appropriate the clear nail polish from your wife. Nope, wouldn't do that ever again.

LOL. My wife and daughter come looking for me.

Can I borrow those cute little scissors?

Dad, can I take the Sally Hansen's?

[kglissmeyer]

Sounds like some good advise so far.

Thread: Uni, 8/0 and 6/0. Black, Olive/Dun, Brown
Cement: Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails - acetone to thin it.
Dubbing Wax: I've never used it in over 26 years of tying - to each their own...as Betty said, a little spit goes a long way.
Bobbins: Start with the ones you can afford, but make sure they're ceramic.

Good luck, and welcome to the dark side...

Kelly.

[Sully]

I started with clear nail polish...and per a hint from AK Best I went to the hardware and bought a QUART of lacquer AND thinner for $12. Thats probably good enough for about 10,000 flys!....

I have rolls of 3/0...6/0...and 8/0 in various colors. Only thing I might add to Betty's suggestion is a roll of 3/0 in light yellow.

I have ( notice I didnt say use) a tube of Wapsi that at times gets used...but it doesnt matter what wax you get...one still wil last you at least 20 years....you just dont use much at all.