Hook holding power . . . ?? nonsense ?

[waynep]

I read about people's vise choices. One thing they mention is hook holding power. I read about vises holding hooks so they turn hooks into pretzels. I read about people wanting to hold the hook strong enough so they can break the thread and other non-fly tying related "stunts".

This all seems like overkill to me. When I am tying flies, I don't want to turn the hook into a pretzel. I don't want to see if I can snap the thread. All I need the vise to do is hold the hook so that it does not move while I am tying. Using GSP for deer hair spinning/stacking is one thing where I actually need fairly strong hook holding power. I use a pedestal vise and don't drag it across the desk either. Size 20 midges with 8/0 thread . . come on . . Shouldn't we really want our vises to do what they were meant to do?

Does anyone else think like this? Or am I weird?

wayne

[Jeff Clough]

Given the primary purpose of any vice is to hold something, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to use that ability as a measure of quality. Personally, as long as my hook stays in the vice while I'm tying, I'm happy. That I could use it to crush a Buick just isn't a hard requirement.

On the "breaking the thread" front, however, I hear tell that a lot of production-oriented folks use that technique to keep from reaching for their scissors. If your time-per-fly is important, that "stunt" seems like a big win.

[Sully]

I prefer a vise than can hold any hook I use ( typically no larger than a #12) against ANY force I apply to it...which usually is only thread pressure but when doing say an elk hair caddis I bind the elk hair down TIGHT.

I have 2 Thompson vices and a Dyna King and ALL of them do a great job holding hooks.

[redietz]

If you're not occasionally breaking the thread, you're not wrapping tightly enough. And if the hook slips in the vise before that happens, the vise isn't doing its job.

[Clay]

I mentioned many of the things that you bring up in this thread on another thread Wayne. I'm one who wants a vise to hold a hook.

I really admire a man called Dennis Potter: http://www.riverhouseflyco.com/ I've stood by his vise at fly fishing shows and watched in awe and listened intently. I also own one of his videos. In there he mentions about durable flies and says that many people tie a fly too loosely. He mentions breaking your thread on a regular basis even for experienced tiers is a good thing. He talks about pushing the thread to the limits in his videos.

I should not be able to move the hook in the jaws with a size 14 or 16 trout fly and 8/0 thread without the thread breaking. If it won't hold this little hook, it surely won't work for many of the deer hair spinning techniques. I don't drag my vice base anywhere either and agree with that statement.

This is just one guys opinion and if yours is different that's all cool. We all like different things.

Many vises hold a hook just fine, Renzetti, DynaKing, HMH, Law, Regal and a whole bunch that I haven't mentioned when adjusted right they will get the job done. There are many things that they tell you a vise will do for you, but when you boil away all of the fluff, it's still just a hook holder. I want my vise to hold a hook.

Rick

[Eric-WD]

I want my hook to stay where I put it, with a properly adjusted vise there is no excuse for a hook to slip. I love my regal, it holds the hooks right where I put them. Cutting through all the garbage out there, it to me is the true test of a vise. If it wont hold a hook it is nothing but an expensive decoration.

Eric

[thorarinna]

On the "breaking the thread" front, however, I hear tell that a lot of production-oriented folks use that technique to keep from reaching for their scissors. If your time-per-fly is important, that "stunt" seems like a big win.

Talking about that, I have been trying to do that without any luck, what is the trick to it?

Thorarinn.

[Normand]

Talking about that, I have been trying to do that without any luck, what is the trick to it?

Thorarinn.

pull down on the bobbin thread while yanking on the tag end to be cut off

i wouldnt try it with kevlar thread

watch some lefty kreh videos to see how its done

[Normand]

i dont tie deer hair bass bugs that need pliers to close the cam lever on my renzetti to hold a hook while cranking down on the thread to spin the hair. i adjust the jaws with the adjustment screw and then close the cam lever on the hook. holds the hook perfectly all the time.

[Jayatwork]

Talking about that, I have been trying to do that without any luck, what is the trick to it?

Thorarinn.

Before starting the thread, wrap a couple of times around the first two fingers of your left hand. (assuming you are right handed.) Start your thread on the hook as usual. When you get ten or so wraps on the hook, pause, keep tension on the bobbin and pull the tag end of thread sharply forward, parallel to the hook shank. The first few times you try this on small hooks may result in some interesting bends.