Hackles

[Ray Kunz]

Whiting has very fine hackles but they cover a wide range of grades and quality.
Cabela's lists their premium store brand as Whiting but give no indication what its position is in the lineup. As a mailorder customer this is very frustrating.
Can anyone comment on this? Please don't suggest another brand.

[Buddy Sanders]

Ray,

I read somewhere a while back that the only real 'difference' between the various grades of Whiting capes and saddles had to do with feather count and size range...the 'higher' grades had more feathers and more of different (primarily smaller) sizes. The 'quality' of the individual feathers was the same.

Thus, if they were speaking the truth, then the Cabela's 'Whiting' capes whould be of that same awesome Whting quality. It's just the feather count that you don't 'know' from the catalog description.

I'm not sure if this helps. I don't know how to find out where they would rank in the Whiting 'scale'.

Buddy

[Ray Kunz]

I think I've answered my own question. Cabela's ad says they are of the Darbee strain.
Jim Slattery, in his web site notes that Whiting's Darbee strain are marketed as Hebert-Miner. With the Hebert-Miner brand also covering a range of quality, a customer still is uninformed. My next concern is be that Cabela's offers a "Grizzly" whereas the Whiting/Hebert-Miner offers no plain Grizzly, only different grades of "Grizzly Variant".

[john52948]

i have a couple of the cabelas saddle skins. i use them for wets, nymphs,wooly worms and buggers. all thought the hackle is not what i would consider top dry fly quaility ,or equal to the whitings farm hackle, it is slightly above, in most cases what i would prefer for wets,nymphs, etc. but since it is so difficult to get good wet fly hacklle these days, i feel its about the best substitute out their. the biggest problem with them is the size range available . like all saddles it has a limited size range, and you dont know what it is untill you see it. outside of that , i think you get what you pay for.

[hap]

A grizzly variant is just a grizzly with some odd feathers showing up at different places... I kind of prefer the variants as they seem more "natural" and less mechanical than the prefect grizzly...

Darbee was a shotgun breeder and took whatever the hens threw after comingling the whole flock...

[peregrines]

Ray-

Yup, I bought one of their "premium" capes awhile ago. They sell for 49 bucks or so at regular price. It looks to be the same as a Hebert Miner Bronze grade. Hebert Miner is now owned by Whiting and as you noted has different genetics than the "regular" Whiting dry fly stuff sold in Red Labelled Whiting packaging. The Hebert Miner Line is packaged in Green Whiting labeling. On the cape i bought from Cabela's it's labeled "Cabela's Premium Hackle Grade 1" on a black label with orange writing, with the same "v cut" at the neck and "diaper" found on the hebert miner's.

The HM Grizzlies tend to have more of a cream cast to it than the pure white and black barring of the Whiting red label grizzlies. If it's labelled a variant, it may have something like a few golden badger feathers or whatever mixed in. On the grizz cape i bought (not labelled a variant) there were a few of these feathers mixed in.

On the cape I bought, it's a nice full cape and it looks like it will tie down to 20 no problem with a few 22's and some very short 24's. In general the HM line tends to have a rich range of natural colors- natural duns, browns, gingers and mixed shades like rusty duns, barred duns etc than the whiting line. Cabela's only carries the standard colors, so if you're looking for something special from the HM line, Jim is the person to go to. He normally carries a wide range of colors and always has some unusual stuff too. The HM line typically doesn't tie as small by a size or two as the whitings in comparable grades.

Hope this helps,

Mark

mark

[whatfly]

As a mailorder customer this is very frustrating.
Can anyone comment on this?

Sure. To reduce frustration, go to a local FLY SHOP instead of ordering on line. May not have been what you wanted to hear, but it is the only reliable way to get exactly what you want.

Personally, I think the red label "Whiting" line is superior to the Herbert-Miner green label line. However, some prefer the Herbert-Miner line due to their wide variety of colors (more traditional/natural colors), larger feathers, and affordability -- especially the "pro grade," which I assume is what Cabelas is selling. As you have discovered, Jim Satterly is an excellent source if you are looking for Herbert-Miner necks. Whiting, does produce a "true" grizzly, but even Jim doesn't have any, which might mean they are pretty rare in that line. A variant grizzly might mean a few badger feathers, it might mean a badger "hue" to the cape, it might mean anything really.

Regardless, having been burned many times buying feathers on line from Cabelas, as well as others, I typically only buy dry fly hackle that I am able to inspect and size by hand, and the place to do that is your favorite local fly shop. The additional cost, if any, is well worth the luxury of getting exactly what one wants.

[Gigmaster]

I dunno. Cabelas is all I've ever used, and they have always worked great for me. I'd guess they are right up towards the top in quality.

[Fatman]

If Cabela's lists their premium store brand as Whiting then Cabelas should be able to tell you where in the Whiting lines it falls. If they can't and the colors don't suit you buy a different Whiting cape or saddle where you go to the shop and examine it.

My local shop is getting WAY overpriced on the hackle I use so I mailorder but ask ALOT of questions.

OR, Call Jim and tell him what you want and what it's being used for and have him pick you one from his stock.

Fatman

[aged_sage]

Buddy has it right. The higher the grade, the greater the total number of feathers per cape and the smaller the smallest sizes (also higher priced!). As far as differences between lines is concerned, that is a more subjective matter. Unless you are tying a lot of #20 and smaller flies, the lower and mid-grades are more than satisfactory; particularly in the # 8-18 size range. Within any lone, there should be no appreciable difference in individual feather quality between grades.

aged_sage