Rotary Question

[SteveW]

The thread about the rotary book brought up a question. I am new to rotary tying techniques and have very few skills.

My question is when ribbing a fly, for instance a Pheasant Tail nymph or Zebra Midge, can you wrap the ribbing and the body material at the same time with the rotary feature or do they have to be seperate.


steve

[Clay]

Others with more experience will also chime in soon enough, but there are a couple schools of thought. Al Beatty speaks about criss cross wrapping or what others call counter wrapping. If you wind them at the same time the material must lead the ribbing so Beatty uses a technique called a traveling bobbin rest where one material is layed down using his middle finger and the following material is laid down using his thumb and forefinger. This will have the ribbing wrapped at the same angle as the material and may even slip down into the cracks of the material. If you lay the material going from the eye to the bend of the hook and then lay the ribbing from the bend to the eye the ribbing will go across the material and lock it in for a more secure, bomb proof pattern. I don't explain it as well as professional writter and tier Al Beatty, but I hope that you get the jist or what I am saying in a short paragraph.

So, you can, BUT you may not want to.

[Normand]

can you wrap the ribbing and the body material at the same time with the rotary feature

yes

or do they have to be seperate.

no


i like to wrap seperately so that the body is wrapped in one direction toward the eye and the rib is counterwrapped toward the eye.

[Buddy Sanders]

Steve,

Normand answered succinctly, and Clay pointed out a possible problem with doing so...

However, For many small flies, like Zebra Midges, Bombers, many nymphs, you would have to decide if the extra durability that comes from 'cross wrapping' is worth the extra time.

For me, I tend to go through flies. Rocks, my all to frequent lapses in casting mechanics, underwater obstructions, and the occassional fish tend to deplete my fly box faster than the flies 'wear out' or 'fall apart'.

So, for most of these types of patterns, I do the body and rib in the same operation. It's not hard to do, but it does take some dexterity and a bit of practice to control three or four separate materials at once. The results are indistinguishable from the separate technique as far as the fish are concerned, and it IS faster.

For the average simple 'midge' you can tie in the body material and rib at the same time, starting from the head and wrapping it down with thread back to the bend. Once you get there, you can anvance the thread, wrap the body, and rib the body in one smooth operation.

Plus, it's fun to acquire a new 'skill'. AND, you did pay for that rotary, why not get the most from it?

Buddy

[Steven McGarthwaite]

I have a Renzetti Vise, and I have used a Danvise (which I believe is the best bang for the bucks with anyone starting to dress hooks).

True Rotary vices, maintain the hook shank on a level, and even plane, as you rotate the hook in the vise.

Thread wraps; the thread (tinsel, wire, or floss) does not twist, as if you were wrapping the hook shank with a non-rotary vise). I find that I have better control with my ribbing (even spacing), and my wraps maintain an layering on the hook shank. Even floss wraps are smoother, when using a rotary on the hook shank. This also works with dubbed threads, and chenille!

Rotary helps when you are adding a collar wrap, again better control and constant tension.

What I like most about the rotary vise, is the ability to turn the hook to a different presentation; being able to attach material to the opposite side of the hook, with the rotary turning the hook, so you can see what you are doing. I also appreciate when I can tilt the hook, so I can see that my wing is exactly centered on the top of the hook shank, and the wing is not slanted off of the hook shank axis. Also great for working with beards/legs on some patterns.

Primping is easier with a rotary, to eliminate any stray or unwanted material, before removing the fly pattern from the vise.

These are just a few of the many ways a rotary vise, makes the task of dressing hooks easier, and allows you better quality control with the thread and materials.

Bottom line, the rotary vise gives you better control over dressing the hook. It can turned the hook, and it also can lock the hook to any presentation that you need.

[Normand]

and dont forget that ribbing is also used to add a little flash and segmentation. wrapping both together may or may not achieve those results properly.

oh, and fine gold wire does not add any appreciable weight to any fly.

[coughlin]

Steven Mc wrote: What I like most about the rotary vise, is the ability to turn the hook to a different presentation; being able to attach material to the opposite side of the hook, with the rotary turning the hook, so you can see what you are doing. I also appreciate when I can tilt the hook, so I can see that my wing is exactly centered on the top of the hook shank, and the wing is not slanted off of the hook shank axis. Also great for working with beards/legs on some patterns.
Yep!
By the way, anyone interested in excellent video instruction on rotary use should check out Mike Holt's Maine rotary flytying. It's a subscription service ( still $25.00 for a year)but excellent videos of tying patterns as well as vids on techniques.
Coughlin